Terms/Definitions

[Mameluke]

Hey guys

 

I am having some trouble understanding some of the terms used on this board and I am wondering if somebody can please help explain what some of the terms mean.

Firstly, I don't have a lot of fountain pens (yet hehe) and that might be why I can't completely understand.

 

1. What is a wet/dry nib? Does this refer to the amount of ink that flows through? If yes I always thought the amount of flow was related to the size (fine medium etc. I have a fine nib on my pen)

 

2. What is feathering?

 

3. Nib Creep. Does anyone have any pictures of nib creep? I have not experienced this yet and would like to get an idea of what it looks like. As i understand it it is caused by ink flowing TOO well. A lot of reviews say that some inks cause it and i do not want to buy an ink only to realize that this is not somethign I can live with.

 

 

Thank you very much

 

 

 

Mame

[JohnS-MI]

Hey guys

 

I am having some trouble understanding some of the terms used on this board and I am wondering if somebody can please help explain what some of the terms mean.

Firstly, I don't have a lot of fountain pens (yet hehe) and that might be why I can't completely understand.

 

1. What is a wet/dry nib? Does this refer to the amount of ink that flows through? If yes I always thought the amount of flow was related to the size (fine medium etc. I have a fine nib on my pen)

 

2. What is feathering?

 

3. Nib Creep. Does anyone have any pictures of nib creep? I have not experienced this yet and would like to get an idea of what it looks like. As i understand it it is caused by ink flowing TOO well. A lot of reviews say that some inks cause it and i do not want to buy an ink only to realize that this is not somethign I can live with.

 

 

Thank you very much

Mame

 

I'll try. Others may add some other viewpoints.

 

1 Wet/dry: A nib lays down a line it's own width or a little wider, but the line also has some depth, which determines the total volume of ink. A wet nib lays down a lot of ink relative to it's width, which will make the line dark, but it may dry slowly, smear, spread, feather, etc. A dry nib lays down relatively little ink for its width, color is lighter.

 

2) Feather: One of several terms when ink goes where it shouldn't. Specifically, it follows the fibers of the paper, nonuniformly, so it looks like little feathers projecting from the line. It is an interaction of the paper and the ink. If the line spreads uniformly wider than the nib, that is "spread." "Bleedthrough is when the ink creates ink colored spots on the reverse side, show-through is when it soaks partially through showing a dark spot on reverse, but color is indeterminate because the ink has not soaked through to the reverse surface. On very bad paper, all inks do these things, on wonderful paper, none do. For intermediate paper, there is considerable interaction, some inks are better than others, and it may depend on what paper, too. Also a dry nib will have less of these things on modest quality paper, a wet nib may require superior paper.

 

3) Nib creep: Some ink gets on the top surface of the nib. Noodlers inks get acused of this a lot, but some of them are the best waterproof (bulletproof) inks available. I don't get much of it with Noodlers black and I just wipe it off becasue I WANT the waterproof properties. Some people just hate it.

 

You have to find combinations that work for you, and are aligned with your preferences. As we want different things, we will not agree on what inks, pens, papers are the best. With a common language, we can agree on direction, and give one another helpful advise.

 

[Mameluke]

Many thanks

 

 

Your explanation of the wet/dry nibs brings up another point though

 

I don't see this feature as being advertised when buying pens, only the size (medium, fine etc). I guess it's all trial and error.

 

 

Thanks again

 

 

Mame

 

Edit Oh Thought of more just now

 

Does nib creep keep coming back? After you wipe it will it return or is it something that happens at first only?

And also: Nib Creep happens because of flow that is too GOOD right?

Edited December 3, 2007 by Mameluke

[KCat]

Many thanks

 

 

Your explanation of the wet/dry nibs brings up another point though

 

I don't see this feature as being advertised when buying pens, only the size (medium, fine etc). I guess it's all trial and error.

 

Pretty much. Some brands have reputations for one or the other. It has mostly to do with feed design with reservoir and nib design adding to the mix.

 

 

Edit Oh Thought of more just now

 

Does nib creep keep coming back? After you wipe it will it return or is it something that happens at first only?

And also: Nib Creep happens because of flow that is too GOOD right?

 

Yes, it keeps coming back. No, it isn't necessarily that flow is too good. In fact, there are good "firehose" nibs out there that never see creep. There are detailed explanations elsewhere from Mr. Binder et. al. but in essence the two major influences of nib creep are:

1) tiny (microscopic?) flaws in the surface of the nib that allow ink to "creep" along that surface. This can happen with any nib.

2) more surfactants in one type of ink vs. another. Surfactants are chemicals in the ink that promote flow along the surface. They prevent the ink from "beading" inside the pen (therefore not flowing.) Surfactant types vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and their amounts vary. (grossly simplified explanation)

Edited December 4, 2007 by KCat

[Shangas]

1. Wet/Dry nib.

 

When running a nib over a sheet of paper, capillary-action sends the ink through the feed, down the tines onto the paper. This is how a fountain pen works. When the ink hits the paper, it's absorbed (or in other inks' cases - evaporates & dries), thus staining the paper the way you want it.

 

A 'dry' nib will lay down a nice, uniform level of ink that will be somewhat thin and relatively quick-drying (Hence - dry nib). A 'wet' nib, by contrast, lays down significantly much more ink. You should be able to tell a wet-from-dry nib easily after writing probably a line of script. A wet nib will produce lines that are somewhat thicker than the width of the nib. The ink will be bold and shiny if you hold it under a light-source such as a table-lamp. In this case, a nib has laid down so much ink that it's said to be a 'wet' nib. This will take some time to dry properly and if you're not careful (or if you're a left-hander), the ink will have a very good chance of smudging quite badly (It's here that I suggest blotting paper or some other-such material).

 

2. Feathering, as-stated by John, is ink behaving badly. Feathering is usually caused by one of two things...sometimes both.

 

A: The ink is laid down too thickly (This can happen with wet nibs).

B: The paper is extremely porus.

 

With "good" paper, when the ink is laid down, it soaks right down into the paper and leaves even, clear lines. With bad-quality paper which is too fiberous, you leave yourself open to the phenomenon known as 'feathering'. What happens is that once the ink has been laid down and has left it's mark, the ink will start creeping outwards from it's designated path. The paper is too fibrous (fuzzy) and these fibers soak up the excess ink, drawing it away from it's pen-laid path. This creates 'feathering'.

 

Of course, this can happen with ink as well. If your pen has a wet nib and naturally lays down huge channels of ink, you might get feathering. Or, if your pen has a broadish nib, that might also create feathering. Feathering is avoidable by using decent paper, thinnish nibs which write dry.

 

3. Nib-creep, again explained by John, is when ink gets onto the surface of the nib. It's not 'dangerous'. I very much doubt that it would cause the nib permanent damage, but it is messy and it is unsightly. Sometimes nib-creep can be tackled successfully with tissue-paper, but otherwise, it'll be up to you to do some chopping and changing to find the best nib & ink combo to prevent this.

[wackyjacky1]

Some folks prefer a drier-writing nib, others a wetter one (count me among the latter). You'll discover your own preference over time.

 

As for nib creep, it bugs the heck out of some people, and others (me, again) could care less about it.

 

A lot of things about fountain pens are defined by personal preferences.

[Jeff Muscato]

Hey guys

...

3. Nib Creep. Does anyone have any pictures of nib creep? I have not experienced this yet and would like to get an idea of what it looks like. As i understand it it is caused by ink flowing TOO well. A lot of reviews say that some inks cause it and i do not want to buy an ink only to realize that this is not somethign I can live with.

 

My Pelikan M200's italic nib has some creep with Noodler's Old Manhattan Black ink. A friend once set it down roughly and I saw some very faint spatter on the paper just under the nib, but otherwise I've never had any trouble with it.

 

While ink flow (wetness or dryness) isn't specified in the standard nib choices, a nib expert can probably adjust it if you'd like. Here's a photo of my M200's nib, though usually the creep is even more apparent.

 

http://www.getCIT.com/files/jeff/IMG_1087_nib_creep.jpg

Edited December 9, 2007 by Jeff Muscato

[GardenCity-NY]

Interesting definitions here... It's always nice to learn a thing of two. One terms I've frequently seen on the site but not mentioned above is Shading. I have an idea what this is and would appreciate some level of description around that one. Cheers

[Ghost Plane]

Shading is when the same ink in the same pen quite literally gives different shades of color in the course of writing. If you look down at the pictures in ink reviews, you'll find a classic for this is Apache Sunset. As the nib pushes the ink around, you'll see everything from a golden yellow to deep orangish red in the lines formed by the pen. Other inks stay the same color no matter how the nib pushes them around. Broad nibs, stubs and italics will give more differences because of the thickness of ink they lay down in different parts of the line. The thinner the nib, the less shading you'll see using the same ink. It's a function of the width of the line and quantity of ink.

 

Shading does NOT necessarily go with ink performance however. That same Apache Sunset that lays down beautiful colors from a wet nib will make that same nib feel very dry and draggy as it pulls over the page.

[fatehbajwa]

Hey guys

 

I am having some trouble understanding some of the terms used on this board and I am wondering if somebody can please help explain what some of the terms mean.

Firstly, I don't have a lot of fountain pens (yet hehe) and that might be why I can't completely understand.

 

1. What is a wet/dry nib? Does this refer to the amount of ink that flows through? If yes I always thought the amount of flow was related to the size (fine medium etc. I have a fine nib on my pen)

 

2. What is feathering?

 

3. Nib Creep. Does anyone have any pictures of nib creep? I have not experienced this yet and would like to get an idea of what it looks like. As i understand it it is caused by ink flowing TOO well. A lot of reviews say that some inks cause it and i do not want to buy an ink only to realize that this is not somethign I can live with.

 

 

Thank you very much

 

 

 

Mame

 

Thanks Mame for asking these questions.

 

I had the same ones coming up in my mind all the time ...just did not get around to asking.

 

[rogerb]

While we are on the subject of 'terms', what do you call the part of the part of a FP that you hold, and in which the nib is fitted?

And the bit which usually screws on this and contains the ink cartridge/converter/reservoir?

Thanks and apologies if this has been covered elsewhere!

[Jeff Muscato]

While we are on the subject of 'terms', what do you call the part of the part of a FP that you hold, and in which the nib is fitted?

And the bit which usually screws on this and contains the ink cartridge/converter/reservoir?

Thanks and apologies if this has been covered elsewhere!

I'm not entirely certain, but I think that the former (where you hold it) is called the "section" and the latter (which holds the ink or cartridge) is called the "barrel."

[cowdad]

Many thanks

 

 

Your explanation of the wet/dry nibs brings up another point though

 

I don't see this feature as being advertised when buying pens, only the size (medium, fine etc). I guess it's all trial and error.

 

Not completely trial and error: Many pens are known to be wet or dry. I don't know much about pens so I can't tell you about which ones, but there are plenty of people here who do know, and you can ask, or read their posts.

 

There are things you can do to make a dry pen write wetter. A tiny bit of dishwashing detergent mixed with the ink--generally, we do this mixing in the converter and not in the bottle--because it is easy to get the amount wrong. Some people touch a toothpick in the detergent and touch that in the converter. I mix up some detergent with water and draw out a few drops of this and put one, two, or three small drops in the cartridge. Too much surfactant will result in feathering.

 

There are also various tricks you can do to the nib physically to make it wetter, but I'm not going to explain these things as I'm not an expert--though I have had successful results following the directions of people in these forums--not this specific forum, but there is a forum on working on pens. You can find threads on the subject in the forum that deals with working on pens. A really expensive pen should be sent to an expert--who can be found here.

 

 

[swarden43]

Here's something that will keep you entertained for HOURS!! www.richardspens.com click on REFERENCE INFO along the left. Be forewarned - the site is very addictive!!

[FrankB]

Mame wrote:

 

"I don't see this feature as being advertised when buying pens, only the size (medium, fine etc). I guess it's all trial and error."

 

I had thought it was fairly common practice to note whether a nib was "wet," "dry," or "standard" or "true" or some similar term. I know that I am always interested whether a nib is a wet or dry writer and if that feature is not part of the advertizing for a pen it becomes a question I ask back channel.

 

I will also suggest that you take a trip to Richard's web site and explore his reference section. I have found it so very helpful and I sure wish something like it existed when I was learning to use FP's in the 1950's.

 

You asked good questions.

Edited December 10, 2007 by FrankB