Ink safety

[shufen]

Hi all,

 

My 3-year-old niece just accidentally licked some black Aurora ink and my sister didn't know if that's poisonous or not. We just hurriedly clean her mouth up by water rinsing, so far she's okay. But, truly which ink contains hazardous materials? Or most inks for fountain pen are safe even human being accidental lick some or even swallow it?

 

Thanks.

 

SF

[Paddler]

Poison Control Center 1-800-222-1222.

 

Paddler

 

[jbn10161]

All J.Herbin inks in their regular fountain pen ink line, i.e., not the scented or specialty inks, are non-toxic.

 

 

[BoxerDad]

Probably nothing to worry about, sounds like she did not ingest that much!

 

 

I would get nervous if she drank half the bottle though!

[Pariah Zero]

But, truly which ink contains hazardous materials? Or most inks for fountain pen are safe even human being accidental lick some or even swallow it?

 

Richard Binder's site states that:

with the exception of a very few blue-black inks based on iron gallotannate, all modern fountain pen inks use aniline dyes for their coloring.

 

An MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for aniline says the following about its toxicity:

Potential Health Effects

----------------------------------

 

Inhalation: Toxic. Affects ability of blood to carry oxygen. Symptoms may include bluish discoloration of lips and tongue, severe headache, nausea, confusion, dizziness, shock, respiratory paralysis, death.

Ingestion: Toxic. Lethal dose may be as little as one gram. Symptoms of ingestion parallel those of inhalation exposure.

 

First Aid Measures:

Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Do not give mouth to mouth resuscitation. CALL A PHYSICIAN IMMEDIATELY.

Ingestion: Induce vomiting immediately as directed by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.

 

In other words, treat ink like a poison, call poison control, etc. (Which was the first response)

 

In general, most inks are almost completely water (if Noodler's info is representative, "over 97%" is water). No mention is made if that is by weight, or by volume... but I'll make a back of the envelope calculation:

 

An aurora bottle is 45 mL. The stuff is probably around 97% water. This means the mass of ink would be about 45g. The 3% left over is a combination of dye, surfactants, and antifungal compounds. It's probably heavily weighted towards the dye, so I'll guess 2.5% of it is the aniline dye. So 45g * 2.5% ends up as about 1.125 g of aniline. That's above the leathal dose for an adult.

 

Of course, that's a back of the envelope calculation, based on a competing manufacturer's claim of how much of the ink is water, calculations based on mass (not volume - and I have no clue which to use), and a complete wild guess on the amount of the 'remaining 3%' that is aniline dye. So my calculation is at best an educated guess.

[Shangas]

Jeepers!!

 

*Locks up ink-bottles in a strongbox when the kiddies come over*.

 

I didn't realise fountain pen ink was this deadly. And I lick my inky fingers regularly to clean the ink off...ehmm...*drops dead*

 

 

 

 

[Pariah Zero]

*Locks up ink-bottles in a strongbox when the kiddies come over*.

 

I didn't realise fountain pen ink was this deadly. And I lick my inky fingers regularly to clean the ink off...ehmm...*drops dead*

 

Fortunately, there are a few additional factors:

1.) It is quite dilute.

2.) The dye is made from aniline. It's not the same thing as being aniline. I wasn't quite correct in my first post.

 

Still, aniline dyes aren't considered safe for ingestion, and I'm pretty sure the surfactants and antifungals in inks (especially old inks with phenols) aren't all that wonderful when ingested either. (soap is one form of surfactant; and I can't see myself drinking "tough actin tinactin").

 

A lot of everyday things are made with aniline - polyurethane foam, for example, is made using aniline. Polyurethane is in pretty much anything upholstered, from furniture to pillows, to mattresses, to plush toys. It's used in a number of finishes, and is overall extremely useful stuff -- and stuff we are constantly exposed to.

 

I'm not one of those people who thinks "chemicals are dangerous". Though http://www.dhmo.org/ is a fun read. But there are some things that are fine to work with, that aren't so great to be swallowing. Rubbing alcohol, pine-sol, drano, lysol... all nasty stuff to ingest, but beneficial if used properly.

 

Ink isn't completely benign, and many sites I've seen stress that fountain pen ink is not non-toxic, and shouldn't be ingested. In a similar fashion, the iPod has been making news lately because it has chemicals that are toxic if ingested or inhaled. Anybody who grinds up and iPod so they can snort it has bigger problems than iPod poisoning.

 

And licking your fingers to get the ink off... WHY?!?! All you end up with is a black tongue (or teeth); I don't like washing my mouth out with soap!

Edited November 12, 2007 by Pariah Zero

[Shangas]

Answer - Laziness. Just a little dabble and wipe on a tissue. Normally, though, I wouldn't even bother. I just let the ink dry and scrub it off when I have a shower. Inky hands/fingers have never bothered me.

[fierdog]

But, truly which ink contains hazardous materials? Or most inks for fountain pen are safe even human being accidental lick some or even swallow it?

 

Richard Binder's site states that:

with the exception of a very few blue-black inks based on iron gallotannate, all modern fountain pen inks use aniline dyes for their coloring.

 

An MSDS (Materials Safety Data Sheet) for aniline says the following about its toxicity:

Potential Health Effects

----------------------------------

 

Inhalation: Toxic. Affects ability of blood to carry oxygen. Symptoms may include bluish discoloration of lips and tongue, severe headache, nausea, confusion, dizziness, shock, respiratory paralysis, death.

Ingestion: Toxic. Lethal dose may be as little as one gram. Symptoms of ingestion parallel those of inhalation exposure.

 

First Aid Measures:

Inhalation: If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. Do not give mouth to mouth resuscitation. CALL A PHYSICIAN IMMEDIATELY.

Ingestion: Induce vomiting immediately as directed by medical personnel. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person.

 

In other words, treat ink like a poison, call poison control, etc. (Which was the first response)

 

In general, most inks are almost completely water (if Noodler's info is representative, "over 97%" is water). No mention is made if that is by weight, or by volume... but I'll make a back of the envelope calculation:

 

An aurora bottle is 45 mL. The stuff is probably around 97% water. This means the mass of ink would be about 45g. The 3% left over is a combination of dye, surfactants, and antifungal compounds. It's probably heavily weighted towards the dye, so I'll guess 2.5% of it is the aniline dye. So 45g * 2.5% ends up as about 1.125 g of aniline. That's above the leathal dose for an adult.

 

Of course, that's a back of the envelope calculation, based on a competing manufacturer's claim of how much of the ink is water, calculations based on mass (not volume - and I have no clue which to use), and a complete wild guess on the amount of the 'remaining 3%' that is aniline dye. So my calculation is at best an educated guess.

 

MSDS is a great starting source, but to get perspective, look at what MSDS lists about sand. You'd never go to the beach again!

[Johnny Appleseed]

If you have a situation like this and are concerned, definitely call poison control.

 

When I raised this question in a prior thread, BillTheEditor found some pretty good information which I will quote:

 

From the World Health Organization (WHO) Management of Poisoning: A handbook for health care workers, Part 2: Information on specific poisons: Chemicals and chemical products used in the home and the workplace --

 

Products that are not usually harmful

 

The following would not be expected to cause any ill-effects:

* Ink: ball-point pens, felt-tip pens, and fountain pens contain so little ink that there is not enough to cause poisoning if it is sucked from a pen. Some inks may cause soreness in the mouth. Large amounts of ink swallowed from a bottle could be irritant, but serious poisoning has not been reported.

 

(Read for yourself here. The same section has extensive information on ethylene glycol and various forms of alcohol, too long to quote here.)

 

If a child drinks a bottle of Quink or any other fountain pen ink, in other words, you are going to have a mess and the kid probably won't keep it down, but there's no reason to panic. As a parent and grandparent, I understand the concern, but it seems to me your caution and worry are better directed towards all that stuff that people keep under the kitchen and bathroom sink.

 

In case of doubt if this should actually happen, you should always call Poison Control or the equivalent service in your area and ask for guidance.

The entire thread may be read here Phenol in modern inks, Which still have it?

 

And for what it is worth, I have attached the MSDS for Parker Quink/Penman, Sheaffer Skrip, and Pelikan 4001 inks. Those were all the ones I could find when I was digging around for info on the topic.

 

There is also a book about the hazards of art materials out there, that might have some useful information. I don't remember the name of it, but I am sure someone else here might.

 

John

ParkerQuinkPenmanMSDS.pdf

PEL_FountainPenInks4001_MSDS.pdf

Sheaffer_Skrip___MSDS.pdf

[jalison]

I have an MSDS not for aniline but for both Sheaffer Skrip and Pelikan 4001-

I have attached the Sheaffer MSDS-

 

But I will have to scan the Pelikan 4001- the Pelikan lists specific chemicals which I have probably misspelled:

 

N-methyl-chloroacetamide 0 to 0.2%

Chloromethyl-isothiazolinomes 0 to 0.1%

6-acetyoxyl-2, 4-dimethyl-1, 3-dioxane 0 to .2%

 

It says to drink lots of water if ingested- but also says health hazards- "will not occur"

 

Jim Williams

SHE-SkripInk.pdf

[nigelg]

Of course, you will also need to very aware of the dangerous di-hydrogen oxide contained in most if not all FP inks.

 

Happy New Year to all.

 

Nigel

[psfred]

I would guess that those are anti-microbials to prevent "stuff in the bottle". If there was any phenol in there, it would be listed.

 

Note that the amounts are quite small (0.2% is 0.2 grams in 100 mL, or in the case of Pelikan, about 0.07 grams per bottle). I would expect the LD 50 for those compounds to be higher than most acutely toxic things, so it's going to take several hundred milligrams per Kg of body weight to cause trouble. I don't think anyone is going to drink a bottle of ink per Kg of their body weight any time soon, even a small child.

 

I don't know what the ethylene glycol content of most inks is. Some may have none at all, others may have up to 20% or so (at a guess from my own experiments), but again, it's going to take much more that a bottle to kill you.

 

The dyes themselves aren't terribly toxic (the MSDS data I've seen for the usual microbial dyes show a gram or more per Kg LD50, and the bottles contain less than a gram -- usually 0.5% to 1%). I don't know that you wouldn't vomit from ingesting them, but that's not a toxic effect per se, just normal body response to things one should not ingest.

 

I'm not suggesting ink is good for you, but there is absolutely no need to panic if a child gets some in their mouth. The taste should put them off it for life, one would think, as they are usually rather bitter at least! Normal child protection measures will be quite adequate.

 

Peter

[thomasdav]

MSDS is a great starting source, but to get perspective, look at what MSDS lists about sand. You'd never go to the beach again!

 

Here it is (Specifically for SiO₂, which is termed 'sand' in the MSDS):

 

Section 3: Hazards Identification

Potential Acute Health Effects: Slightly hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation.

 

Potential Chronic Health Effects:

CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified 1 (Proven for human.) by IARC. Classified A2 (Suspected for human.) byACGIH.

MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.

TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available.

DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available.

The substance may be toxic to lungs, upper respiratory tract.

Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.

 

I know safety is serious and all, but I couldn't help a giggle at that.

[hbquikcomjamesl]

By contrast, consider MEK peroxide (clear liquid catalyst used to trigger hardening of various polyester thermosets): get even a drop in your eye, and you have a matter of seconds to start flushing before it initiates progressive and irreversible destruction thereof (something that was drilled into the entire class when I took a semester of plastics shop in college). And most art supply, hardware, and auto parts dealers that handle it don't bother to keep it locked up. Or methanol: first it makes you crazy, then it makes you blind, then it makes you dead.

 

Most fountain pen inks, you'd probably have to drink a quart or so in order to have significant ill effects.

 

Still, if you're drinking ink, you'd better be a "yink" (you know, from T. Seuss Geissel's One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish, the creature that likes to wink and drink pink ink?)

[CraigR]

My response may be nullified by the fact that when I was a baby I had a crib with lead based paint and I liked to chew on stuff. I also lived and partied through the 60's, 70's and 80's. I went through school eating white paste and I still love the smell of mimeograph fluid. So no idea how many brain cells are still viable.

 

I do have a habit of licking off ink stains on fingers and hands. I know - gross, but there I have said it. I like to wet a finger and wipe a stubborn nib with it and then clean the finger tip in my mouth. Ekkkkk! Being too lazy sometimes to grab the flushing bulb, I also have been known to use my mouth to blow water through a nib/feed when cleaning it. Come on, you know you have done the same thing at least once.

 

If I had a child that had a significant ink stain on their mouth or tongue, I would call poison control immediately. Error on the side of safety. We do not have young children around the house (dagnamit), but I still have my bottles and spare cartridges of ink on a shelf that would not be accessible to a child. BTW Cartridges would be an attractive item for a child to chew on - I would have when young. Guess the best practice is to be safe with our ink and pens (nibs can be dangerous if played with too) but not do the "chicken little" dance. /Craig