Snorkel Sac Keps Rotting

[jkrewalk]

Hopefully someone can help me with this problem. I have replaced the sac in my snorkel (and the O ring and point gasket as well) twice and each time within 2 to 3 months the sac leaks. Upon inspection it was "gooey" and had deteriorated like something "ate away" at it.

 

Anyone have any ideas as to what possibly might have caused this?????????? Each time I used a new rubber sac and made sure that the metal sac holder was totally cleaned out.

 

Thanks.

 

John

 

[PAKMAN]

I guess the main thing we need to know is What Ink(s) are you using in this pen?? Unless there was a bad batch of sacs (I have heard of these) the ink would seem to have had to been the problem.

[jkrewalk]

I guess the main thing we need to know is What Ink(s) are you using in this pen?? Unless there was a bad batch of sacs (I have heard of these) the ink would seem to have had to been the problem.

 

 

Private Reserve ink - the same as I use in all my pens. Never heard of this famous brand destroying sacs.

[PAKMAN]

Wow me neither!! Where did you get your sacs? I heard that during a short time there were some bad batches of sacs.

[Gerry]

And please describe your sac replacement methodology - including any cleaning, adhesives, lubricants and sealing chemicals and techniques used. Your source of sacs would also be important...

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[psfred]

What are you using to lubricate the sac? Anything besides pure talc is likely to be a problem, especially silicone spray of any kind.

 

While I don't use my Snorks as much as you do, I've not had a sac go bad that I know of in the last year. I buy mine from Giovanni.

 

I have, however, gotten a couple Vacumatics with melted diaphrams that appear to have been replaced fairly recently.

 

Peter

Edited October 14, 2007 by psfred

[Tweel]

Do you have any other pens with sacs going bad? Any other rubber around the house (e.g. rubber bands) turning to crust or goo?

 

According to the CT Dept. of Environmental Protection, "ozone is a problem throughout Connecticut".

 

-- Brian

[Ernst Bitterman]

Didn't a variant of Andromeda Strain cause some rubbers to decay? Maybe a call to Project Wildfire is in order.

 

But I suspect the question regarding lubricants is more on point.

[Pens123]

The only thing I know of that will melt sacs, and some other rubber parts, to goo that quickly is something along the lines of WD-40. Are you using a petroleum distillate as a lubricant for the sac tube/TD plunger? Far better to stick to silicon grease (you can get tubes of this stuff at auto repair stores...look in the section where they have stuff to repair brakes).

[Oxonian]

Hi John,

 

Just a cautionary note and to be on the safe side when you get your silicone grease, don't get it from an auto shop but rather order it from a pen specialist, Tryphon stocks it as do several other pen repair suppliers, failing that get it from a dive shop or aircraft/welding oxygen supply fitters if you know any as many brands of silicone grease for use in cars may contain additives that could over the long term cause problems to some of the plastics used in pens. I am not saying that auto silicone grease will cause your pride and joy to deteriorate overnight or anything like that but better safe than sorry.

 

Cheers, John

[psfred]

Loctite 51360, available at good auto repair stores and any bearing supply company. A 150 gr tube costs about $18 and will last you at least a dozen lifetimes of pen repair!

 

Pete

[Pens123]

John...a helpful cautionary note. There are small (1 ounce?) tubes of 100% pure silicon grease available in auto parts stores. It's a good idea, as you indicate, to make sure that other additives aren't in the mix.

 

Hi John,

 

Just a cautionary note and to be on the safe side when you get your silicone grease, don't get it from an auto shop but rather order it from a pen specialist, Tryphon stocks it as do several other pen repair suppliers, failing that get it from a dive shop or aircraft/welding oxygen supply fitters if you know any as many brands of silicone grease for use in cars may contain additives that could over the long term cause problems to some of the plastics used in pens. I am not saying that auto silicone grease will cause your pride and joy to deteriorate overnight or anything like that but better safe than sorry.

 

Cheers, John

 

[Ron Z]

General comments here...

 

1] There was indeed a batch of rubber sacs that were missing a critical ingredient a couple of years ago. If you got your sacs back then, the best thing to do is to toss them and order a new batch, or contact the seller.... I haven't had any complaints about ones I have installed in the last couple of years.

 

2] re. silicone grease. Based on experience - i.e. having to repair pens on which silicone grease was used to lubricate diaphragms etc. I can say that silicone grease should not be used on these parts. It should be used for 0 rings, and VERY sparingly on the snorkel tubes down near the sac guard. Diaphragms on which silicone grease has been used will fail sooner rather than later - I've replaced a couple dozen. They usually bind up and then the filler gets stuck part way down. The only cure then is to replace the diaphragm.

 

A good source for pure silicone grease is a skin diving shop. It's cheap - under $5 for a small container that will last most folks several years!

 

3] Simple talc as a dry lubricant is best. Dusting sacs with talc will keep them from sticking to barrel walls and the walls of sac guards. Baby powder won't do as it contains other stuff along with the talc.

[eckiethump]

General comments here...

 

1] There was indeed a batch of rubber sacs that were missing a critical ingredient a couple of years ago. If you got your sacs back then, the best thing to do is to toss them and order a new batch, or contact the seller.... I haven't had any complaints about ones I have installed in the last couple of years.

 

2] re. silicone grease. Based on experience - i.e. having to repair pens on which silicone grease was used to lubricate diaphragms etc. I can say that silicone grease should not be used on these parts. It should be used for 0 rings, and VERY sparingly on the snorkel tubes down near the sac guard. Diaphragms on which silicone grease has been used will fail sooner rather than later - I've replaced a couple dozen. They usually bind up and then the filler gets stuck part way down. The only cure then is to replace the diaphragm.

 

A good source for pure silicone grease is a skin diving shop. It's cheap - under $5 for a small container that will last most folks several years!

 

3] Simple talc as a dry lubricant is best. Dusting sacs with talc will keep them from sticking to barrel walls and the walls of sac guards. Baby powder won't do as it contains other stuff along with the talc.

I believe it to be oils introduced in the perfume of the talc, these will attack your pen, be aware. Generally we are talking old items, which deserve a bit of respect and care. Talc , in it's pure form, the correct silicon grease and shellac are fairly safe eddities. I use Ballistol for freeing things on pens, but ensure it is well cleaned off afterwards, it doesn't emulsify in water so the cleaning process is quite arduous

[jkrewalk]

General comments here...

 

1] There was indeed a batch of rubber sacs that were missing a critical ingredient a couple of years ago. If you got your sacs back then, the best thing to do is to toss them and order a new batch, or contact the seller.... I haven't had any complaints about ones I have installed in the last couple of years.

 

2] re. silicone grease. Based on experience - i.e. having to repair pens on which silicone grease was used to lubricate diaphragms etc. I can say that silicone grease should not be used on these parts. It should be used for 0 rings, and VERY sparingly on the snorkel tubes down near the sac guard. Diaphragms on which silicone grease has been used will fail sooner rather than later - I've replaced a couple dozen. They usually bind up and then the filler gets stuck part way down. The only cure then is to replace the diaphragm.

 

A good source for pure silicone grease is a skin diving shop. It's cheap - under $5 for a small container that will last most folks several years!

 

3] Simple talc as a dry lubricant is best. Dusting sacs with talc will keep them from sticking to barrel walls and the walls of sac guards. Baby powder won't do as it contains other stuff along with the talc.

I believe it to be oils introduced in the perfume of the talc, these will attack your pen, be aware. Generally we are talking old items, which deserve a bit of respect and care. Talc , in it's pure form, the correct silicon grease and shellac are fairly safe eddities. I use Ballistol for freeing things on pens, but ensure it is well cleaned off afterwards, it doesn't emulsify in water so the cleaning process is quite arduous

 

Thank you everyone - but I believe that is it. First, I got the sacs and pure silicone grease from Pendomonium whom I trust. BUT - I did use BABY POWDR - OOPS! That must be it. I am now oredering some silicone sacs from Tryphon and some pure talc - I assume that will enable the sacs to last for YEARS!

 

Thank you again for all your responses.

 

John

Krewalk.com

[Ron Z]

Thank you everyone - but I believe that is it. First, I got the sacs and pure silicone grease from Pendomonium whom I trust. BUT - I did use BABY POWDR - OOPS! That must be it. I am now oredering some silicone sacs from Tryphon and some pure talc - I assume that will enable the sacs to last for YEARS!

 

OOPS. I don't know if the silicone sacs will work in a snorkel - I'll have to check with Martin or try it myself. The walls on the original were too thick, and the new ones are, well, different.

 

At any rate, using talc may help, though it's not an issue with silicone sacs.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Ron Z

[jkrewalk]

Thank you everyone - but I believe that is it. First, I got the sacs and pure silicone grease from Pendomonium whom I trust. BUT - I did use BABY POWDR - OOPS! That must be it. I am now oredering some silicone sacs from Tryphon and some pure talc - I assume that will enable the sacs to last for YEARS!

 

OOPS. I don't know if the silicone sacs will work in a snorkel - I'll have to check with Martin or try it myself. The walls on the original were too thick, and the new ones are, well, different.

 

At any rate, using talc may help, though it's not an issue with silicone sacs.

 

But - Isn't a #14 a #14????????????????

[psfred]

Silicone sacs generally have a thicker wall than a rubber sac, and a Snork should really use a 14 1/2 thin wall anyway. Reason is that the sac is compressed rather briefly using air pressure -- if the sac is too stiff, it won't collapse and hence won't fill very well. The thin wall sacs flatten better on the downstroke of the TD tube, allowing them to pull in more ink. I've had great luck so far with them (from Giovanni). A regular #14 will work, but I don't know about a silicone #14, it will probably be thicker walled, and stiffer.

 

Peter

[Ray-Vigo]

I think Touchdowns and Snorks use a "thin" sac specially made for that purpose. At least many sellers sell these specific special sacs.

[Ron Z]

I think Touchdowns and Snorks use a "thin" sac specially made for that purpose. At least many sellers sell these specific special sacs.

 

You are right - and I use them. But I used the standard sac for years before the thin wall sacs came out. As I said in my post I haven't used the silicone sacs in snorkels, and can't say that they will work. Nor that they won't either. The walls of the original silicone sacs were much thicker than the rubber sacs, much stiffer. I am fairly certain that they would not work. The latest version that Martin sells are thinner and more flexable, but also don't stretch as easily as the original did. There are trade offs.

 

A #14 vs a #14 1/2 will work if you don't have that 14 1/2. Just a little less ink, and a little more room between the sac and the sac guard.