Caring for Celluloid

[LedZepGirl]

Is there anything special I should be doing to care for my celluliod pens. After reading about celluliod online and in my engineering books I'm scared of what might happen to my pens if not cared for correctly. I read that celluloid some times cracks or disintegrates for no apparent reason, and that moisture is harmful as well. After reading that I don't even want to keep ink in some of my pens.

[badrsj]

I am sure more knowledgeable people will chime in - but judging from the looks of it - the Parker Vacumatics (most common celluloid example) are still kicking around - in fairly well shape - despite some examples of shrinkage. I guess the thing to avoid is extremes of temperature / moisture, and not have ink when not in use - otherwise these pens were made for ink and to write with and to be enjoyed

[Farace]

From what I've read (from a book on vintage guitar picks, of all things), I wouldn't worry, as long as you take reasonably good care. No flames, of course. And if celluloid is going to go bad, there's nothing that can be done to stop it. In that case, isolate it from any other celluloid objects you have, because reportedly it can spread. I'm not even sure I'd fret over moisture; there are certainly still a good number of celluloid-handled straight razors around that people use regularly to shave with which see a bit of moisture. I'd say that, for vintage pens at least, most of the ones that are going to go bad already have after fifty years or so.

 

[Vintagepens]

Celluloid doesn't last forever -- but then, neither do we.

And some celluloid ages much better than others. Early celluloid pens (the first jade greens, for example) discolored relatively easily, while many of the beautiful pearlescent colors used by Wahl-Eversharp were prone to disintegration (though keep in mind this is generally several decades down the line). Celluloids made even a few decades later hold up much better, thanks to better stabilizers added to the material.

 

It seems to me that if you are considering celluloid pens for use, your primary goal is not to preserve them for eternity. Nonetheless, you will on average get a good long time using them -- easily a lifetime, in most cases.

[Roger W.]

I agree with David, that use should be fine for generations. We know that all celluloids are deteriorating some much more rapidly than others. Crazing, which seems to be the ultimate form of celluloid destruction is only occuring in a small percentage of pens now. As the chemical composition of the celluloid continues to loose its plastic properties more pens will craze and, in theory, they will all break down eventually. Pen manufacturers only intended these pens to last 100 or so years anyway. So most celluloids will outlast you and the next few generations. Historically important pens should receive special care to prolong their lives and will be rare museum pieces hundreds of years from now.

 

Roger W.

[Gerry]

[snip]

 

Historically important pens should receive special care to prolong their lives and will be rare museum pieces hundreds of years from now.

 

Roger W.

 

Great answer Roger (and David, for that matter) but I'm sure almost everyone reading this thread immediately asked themselves.... Gee, I wonder what 'special care' the historically important pieces should receive that would prolong their lives for hundreds of years...

 

OK - I suspect you probably meant the obvious - if mint don't use, store carefully (away from heat and light ... preferably even in an inert atmosphere if possible), handle rarely and with gloves etc. but perhaps there are other little practices we should all employ - even with occasional users that will likely markedly increase their survivability over the longer haul - perhaps for our descendants...

 

Anyone have suggestions?

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[PointyThings]

In addition to pen, I also collect antique pocketknives, many with celluloid handles.

 

There are a few signs to look for when celluloid is starting to break down. Here's what I've observed:

 

--Pearlescent celluloid turns clear

 

--crystals form on the surface (I think these are nitric acid crystals, which corrode metal)

 

--Previously mentioned crazing, crystalline appearance, and cracking

 

--Celluloid becomes very brittle, cracking or chipping with normal use

 

--metal trim corrodes

 

--Odd surface changes, like depressions forming, creases, and shrinkage

 

Also, a celluloid pen can "spontaneously" self destruct after years of stability.

 

I've had it happen to both knives and pens, though it's pretty rare (less than one in several hundred for me)

 

Bottom line--don't avoid buying vintage celluloid pens for fear of celluloid break down. There's a lot of enjoyment left in most of the celluloid pens out there. Learn how to avoid the problem pens and dive in.

 

 

Anyone care to start an informal survey on what celluloid colors seem to break down the most?

 

--Karl

 

 

[Roger W.]

Gerry;

 

C'Mon, I start detailing special care people start thinking I'm nuts! It is an interesting thought on the other hand what can one do in a day to day manner to help celluloid survive. Don't write outdoors, thus avoiding UV from the sun - that's seems reasonable. Avoid taking pens through temperature extremes. Don't let members of the TSA touch them (oh, wait, that may be another thread or at the very least silly).

 

I guess if people were aware that celluloid should be handled carefully people would tend to treat them in that manner which would help preserve them.

 

Roger W.

[LedZepGirl]

Thank you everyone. I guess I don't have as much to worry about since I do take good care of my pens. Especially my jade streamline Duofold which is my favourite.

 

From what I've read many plastics do degrade over time, ever some of the modern ones like plastic water bottles. After using them for awhile they start to crack.

[pen2paper]

I have many pre-WWI celluloid buttons in my collection that are just short of mint condition.

 

Just know that heat will affect celluloid... so a sunny spot, near a heater vent, or your auto aren't the best places to store your pen.

Plastics must offgas, so don't store airtight, & celluloid w/metal items in particular, as they deteriorate each other in an airless environment.

 

I would guess that pens found in the worst condition have been in the very back of desk, buffet drawers, perched over heater vents, or in ziplock-type baggies, tupperware-type airtight containers.... certainly the ones that have coloring that appear to have color draining from them, or powdered, goo, & crazing spent time like this.

 

If reasonably cared for, celluloid lasts for generations.

p2p

[Farace]

--crystals form on the surface (I think these are nitric acid crystals, which corrode metal)

 

A perhaps interesting aside: Bill Ellis, well known in the straight razor world for his restorations and repairs, has shown pictures of razors where the corrosion pattern on the blade matches the color pattern in a variegated color celluloid handle. In other words, the metal lying beneath certain specific colors of celluloid (I think it was reds and oranges) will rust quicker!

 

Just found the post: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?...amp;postcount=1

 

[Gerry]

Nice snag Bob - I llike Bill's article...and his sense of humour...

 

Invite him over to give a celluloid lecture - perhaps we can give him a few pointers on how to shave...

 

Regards,

 

Gerry

[Gerry]

Gerry;

 

C'Mon, I start detailing special care people start thinking I'm nuts! It is an interesting thought on the other hand what can one do in a day to day manner to help celluloid survive. Don't write outdoors, thus avoiding UV from the sun - that's seems reasonable. Avoid taking pens through temperature extremes. Don't let members of the TSA touch them (oh, wait, that may be another thread or at the very least silly).

 

I guess if people were aware that celluloid should be handled carefully people would tend to treat them in that manner which would help preserve them.

 

Roger W.

 

Roger, Roger, Roger ... No one here is going to laugh at your Cyrogenic Fountain Pen Storage Facility - perhaps a little publicity will help with the overhead...

 

Serously, thanks for the start - I appreciated that the question re 'users' was actually harder than for collectors - since many storage techniques don't lend themselves to everyday use. Nevertheless - I was hoping to find out whether using waxes - or avoiding waxes was preferable - considering oils from handling contaminating the celluloid. Was careful washing to be encouraged or avoided. What waxes might be used - or should be avoided etc.

 

I suppose that there isn't any empirical data on many products, considering the length of time that celluloid does last - but if any old hands out there do have years of experience with one particular maintenance regime - and whether it has led to particularly long FP plastic lifetime - I'm sure most of us would love to listen.

 

Regards to all,

 

Gerry

[Roger W.]

Gerry;

 

Good point on waxes. I'm really terrible to ask as I use six to ten pens a year and rarely early celluloid. I should use one of my earlier celluloids now that we're discussing it, anyway...I hear a lot of good things in general about renaissance wax. I wonder though if it is good for early celluloid as perhaps those pens should breathe a bit. I would certainly encourage really clean hands.

 

I think the hard part about celluloid preservation and use is that we're kind of talking two different time windows. Preservation is looking at a few hundred years whereas use is maybe a few years by a given owner adding a small amount of deterioration depending on use. It's like smoking, you'll live longer generally not doing it but if you enjoy it how much overall harm was there in doing it (not talking cigarettes - as Churchill said "those things will kill you" - pipe or cigars not inhaled)? During our lifetimes a few notable exception pens (Waterman hundred year pens, some Sheaffer red veins, etc.) will suffer greatly but, the vast majority will have very little apparent damage from use.

 

Roger W.

[Brian]

--crystals form on the surface (I think these are nitric acid crystals, which corrode metal)

 

A perhaps interesting aside: Bill Ellis, well known in the straight razor world for his restorations and repairs, has shown pictures of razors where the corrosion pattern on the blade matches the color pattern in a variegated color celluloid handle. In other words, the metal lying beneath certain specific colors of celluloid (I think it was reds and oranges) will rust quicker!

 

Just found the post: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showpost.php?...amp;postcount=1

 

Wow, that's really something. Thanks for the info.