Tine alignment

[Yuri]

Hello, penlovers.

 

I have one of my pens with misaligned tines, so it is scratchy.

I tried to dig in this forum to fine description of the procedure

on tine alignment, but could find. I just saw that somebody did

it with nail, but no details. Could anybody explain it for me

or poit to where I can find such info?

 

Thanks

[Ray]

You're going to need a loupe, a 10X magnifier is fine. Take a good look at the nib point through the loupe, angling the pen so you're looking directly at the point , with the part of the point which touches paper when you write horizontally in your view. If all is well, the two halves of the point will form a sphere, but if the tines are misaligned, you'll see half the sphere sitting higher than the other.

 

Grip the pen with your index and middle finger about the section, then position your thumb on the feed, thumbnail resting in the back of the nib tines, just below the point itself. Now slide your thumb so it it is right behind the outside edge of the tine which is sitting lower. Gradually apply pressure to the underside of that tine. Have another look through the loupe and repeat with increasing pressure until the alignment is perfect.

 

An alternative grip is to hold the pen like a singer would a microphone, nib upward and facing forward, with the thumb covering the feed and nail resting on the back of the tines as before.

 

NB: This is much easier to do than to describe. I hope this helps.

 

Ray

[Roger]

Ray has done a great job in describing something that can hardly be described.

 

Get some cheapie pens under $5.00 and practice with their nibs. It's a gradual procedure that requires many manipulations with your fingers and fingernails, with inspection with the loupe after each manipulation. Sometimes it goes rapidly and other times, those blasted tines seem to defy getting back into alignment. They will, though, if you have the patience and proceed slowly.

 

Good luck,

 

Edit: Oh, and after you're successful in getting the alignment straightened out, check that slot from the breather hole out to the tip of the tines. It should be widest back at the breather hole, and taper to where the tip of both tines nearly touch each other. The pen has to be empty of ink and dry for you to see this slot against a strong backlight. The loupe helps here, too.

Edited August 24, 2005 by Roger

[dmorgen]

Is the procedure the same for a flexible nib? When I tried aligning the tines on a Wahl Everysharp Skyline with flexible nib, I couldn't get the alignment to change at all!

 

Dave

[Roger]

Haven't the foggiest, Dave. Haven't yet had my hands on a flexy nib.

 

The restitution of the tines after being spread repeatedly to their max. is, I'll bet, a difficult thing to achieve. If they don't come back into alignment properly, then writing with it in an unspread condition will suffer.

 

Smooth nails fit my style and ability far better. I seriously doubt that I'll ever aspire to a flexible nib as in the vintage pens of yesteryear. That, of course, presupposes that I remain an accumulator/user rather morphing into a collector.

[Johnny Appleseed]

Is the procedure the same for a flexible nib? When I tried aligning the tines on a Wahl Everysharp Skyline with flexible nib, I couldn't get the alignment to change at all!

 

I am having the same problem with a very flexy Parker Lucky Curve Pen nib. I can re-align the tines and it writes pretty smoothly, until I really flext it, and then it comes back out of alignment. One of the tines is also curved inward slightly, so getting the flow adjustment right is tricky as well. Slowly I have been doing more aggressive nib-bending to get it into shape. It's getting there, slowly. . .

 

J. Appleseed

[Yuri]

Ray, Roger, thank you very much for description

of the procedure on tines alignment.

 

Ordered 30X loupe, once I get it I will try

to tweak my pen. Went ahead and purchased ultra fine hard black arkansas stone for planned nib regrinding, I already have polishing paper or film one is 1mu and another is .3mu

 

Acumulated some amount of pens and several of them I like except that they require minor work on nibs, like alignment,

smothing etc. Decided that it's time to get wet.

[Roger]

You will have to be one steady boy to hold that 30X loupe steady enough. Any more than 10X or 20X is overkill for nib aligning and smoothing imo.

 

Last caveat, then I'll shut up on this , but for smoothing, keep that stone out of the picture. ALL you need for smoothing is the 0.3 micron film. The 1.0 micron film is the intermediate material that follows the stone and precedes the 0.3 micron in the GRINDING process. I suspect that you already knew that, but my OCD is sometimes out of control.

[Keith with a capital K]

The most difficult nibs to realign and straighten are those uber flexible examples from days past as they have quite the memory of what shape they were in and have a tendency to want to return to that shape... even if that shape was wrong.

 

Working on these requires more skill, patience and a little more aggressiveness but with enough of each, they too can be restored to good writing condition. With a flexible nib, the ends of the tines should be touching ever so slightly once the nib has been restored.

 

After being re-aligned you will want to treat these nibs gently as the reason for their misalignment was probably due to someone writing too aggressively and with too much downward pressure for the nib to bear in the first place.

 

For anyone unfamiliar with using flexible nibs, one needs to remember that when flexed they will exhibit some degree of toothiness that should not be confused with misaligned tines or an imperfect shape to the tipping. This is caused by the spreading of the tines and one side of the tip making more contact as the pen is drawn across the paper.

 

Other fun nibs to work on are Sheaffer Lifetimes as it requires a great deal of force to bend them and a good deal of energy and time to bring them back to their true form.

 

On the bright side, once this skill is mastered it becomes much easier to straighten bent nibs and the time spent doing this will be much reduced.

[dmorgen]

Keith,

 

Thanks for the instructions!

 

Dave

[wimg]

Hi Roger, Yuri,

 

Roger, you forget I am OCD too, so I have to add to your message .

You will have to be one steady boy to hold that 30X loupe steady enough.

Yes, plus 30X loupes generally lack the qualities required for studying tine tips: depth of focus and aperture. Unless you have a steady hand and very good eyes, it'll be hard on you.

Any more than 10X or 20X is overkill for nib aligning and smoothing imo.

Slightly debatable, IMO . I align nibs generally without a loupe these days, but by now I have a little experience . In the beginning you may require a 20X loupe, but generally a 10X or 15X loupe will do. Now, smoothing is another issue, as I tend to be a perfectionist. After all, you don't necessarily want to end up with a nib that has a big sweet spot in one place only, the one that only fits you. I like to make a nib smooth enough for most people to write with, as independently as possible of the angle, rotation and elevation they use for writing with a fountain pen. This is not only useful for experienced fountain pen users, and for selling a pen on when you want to replace it with something else, but even more so when you're used to bps, and your habits are still changing, IOW, when you're a relative newby. Your angle, rotation and elevation is still changing, and having a universally smooth nib means that it is comfortable at any angle, etc. Also, the only way to properly see whether a nib is really smooth, is, IMO a 20X or more loupe. I have been recommending a PEAK NEW 22X loupe for this type of work, because it performs so excellently for nib work, although designed for photo negatives etc., because if its incredible clarity and depth of field, with sharpness from edge to edge over the whole field of view. It is better even than all 6X and 10X loupes I know, except maybe their own .

 

Last caveat, then I'll shut up on this  , but for smoothing, keep that stone out of the picture. ALL you need for smoothing is the 0.3 micron film. The 1.0 micron film is the intermediate material that follows the stone and precedes the 0.3 micron in the GRINDING process. I suspect that you already knew that, but my OCD is sometimes out of control.

Yes, please do as Roger mentions here: the stone will destroy your nib if you are looking for smoothing. Only use it for shaping, and only if you know exactly what you're doing or aiming to achieve, and practice first.

I do realize by now, from all the horror stories I have read everywhere, that I am lucky in that I managed to get my Edson to work properly after having attacked it with 1000 grit wet&dry 2 years ago, but an arkansas stone is not a lot better. The best ones are about 2500 grit, the best surgical arkansas stones about 4000, 1 micron about 8000 grit, and 0.3 about 12000 grit. So, there is a significant difference. Actually, if you look at tipping that is in order, it is very shiny, because it is so smooth. That stage you can only achieve, IME, with about 10000 grit and up.

 

And for smoothing: first make sure the nib is aligned properly, and only then smooth, as this involves removing tipping material. When a nib's tines are not aligned, the chance of getting it smoothed is very small, and if you do, you will have ruined it forever essentially. Oh, and no force is required to do smoothing. Just patience, water, paper, ink, mylar, some tissue, a loupe and a very softly applied amount of elbow grease. And make sure it is done evenly over the whole tipping area, check every few seconds, especially in the beginning, how it is performing too. It is all too easy to stop too early, or to go too far.

 

Anyway, HTH, warm regards, Wim

[Roger]

Well, for heaven's sake, Wim, aren't you going to give Yuri the link to your tome on smoothing, grinding, material acquisition and the temperament necessary for nib work.

 

I'm gonna make him overcome his modesty, Yuri, and offer you the link instead of me doing it. It's a good read in spite of the author's reticence

[wimg]

Hi Roger,

Well, for heaven's sake, Wim, aren't you going to give Yuri the link to your tome on smoothing, grinding, material acquisition and the temperament necessary for nib work.

Well, ummm, I thought present the short version first, and if there are more questions...

 

I'm gonna make him overcome his modesty, Yuri, and offer you the link instead of me doing it.

What are you trying to say now? Are you offering the link or am I supposed to do it now?

It's a good read in spite of the author's reticence

Nah, not reticent. I don't even know where to find the thing. Maybe I just should save the link somewhere permanently. Ah, wait, maybe from my site. Lemme see: Grinding Nib Experiences

 

Yip, works, that's it .

Happy now?

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Roger]

I'm gonna make him overcome his modesty, Yuri, and offer you the link instead of me doing it.

What are you trying to say now? Are you offering the link or am I supposed to do it now?

It's a good read in spite of the author's reticence

Nah, not reticent. I don't even know where to find the thing. Maybe I just should save the link somewhere permanently. Ah, wait, maybe from my site. Lemme see: Grinding Nib Experiences

 

Yip, works, that's it .

Happy now?

 

Warm regards, Wim

Ok, even if you had to read my limp syntactical construction, several times, you figured it out.

 

Yeah, right, Wim. You didn't even know where to look, eh? If I had written a piece like that I'd have it stashed all over the place including, at least, several copies on my local machine!

[Ray]

Hear hear. That's a fine piece of exposition, Wim.

 

Ray

[wimg]

Hi Roger,

Ok, even if you had to read my limp syntactical construction, several times, you figured it out.

Not limp, just my misunderstanding of the English, that´s all. In Dutch you separate different parts of a sentence with commas, and it supposedly is obligatory, but in English it isn´t. Once I got he commas in the right places, I understood .

 

Yeah, right, Wim. You didn't even know where to look, eh?   If I had written a piece like that I'd have it stashed all over the place including, at least, several copies on my local machine!

That´s exactly what I did, and on one of my sites, and the original on PT. Of course I knew where to look, as in, I knew where the hay stack was

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

Hi Ray,

Hear hear. That's a fine piece of exposition, Wim.

 

Ray

Thank you for your kind words!

Warm regards, Wim

[Yuri]

Wim, Roger

 

Thanks for for additional details I appretiate it. I do not mind to hear all tips and pitfalls several times, that just helps to get it into my head reliably and prevent ruining a pen under work.

 

I have already read Wim's article and other one on nib regrinding which was mention sometime ago on this forum. That actually inspired to tune some of my pens. I consider smoothing some of my pens and later to regrind couple another pens. I am still do not like italic, stub or similar nibs (who know may be I will like then later), Just prefer "plain" nibs, but ones which give rather fine line. So I am thinking to reshape somes to fine or extrafine or even thiner. It is very difficult nowadays to find pens which give fine lines, everybody tries to make mediums and even mediums which write like a broad, so I am in position to make nibs thiner myself.

 

BTW, all material on grinding I met is focused primeraly on smoothing or making italic nibs. Any specific on making tips finer than they are?

 

Returning to tine alignment. Yesterday evening I tried to do something with my pen.

It was Hero 329 I recently bought on DC penshow, I like this pen but it's scratchy on writing (I mean stroking) from left to right. I inspected the nib, what I discovered. It is actualy left tine is little bit lower than right. Besides Left tine has lager size (height) and the tines forms the figure like trapezoid, where vertical sides of the are parralel and top and bottom are not. In addition most other nibs I explored ahve tines touching each other, this one has some space between them. The space is not big (may be 1/10 of tine width) but definitle is there. It does not affect on ink delivery in bad way like skipping. This nib is perfect for me but scratchy.

 

OK, I tried the trick with alignment, but have not got good results yet. The nib is pretty tiny, has fine or extra fine point and has limited space around (hooded like Parker 51) it to work on. I do not give up, will continue.

[wimg]

Hi Yuri,

It was Hero 329 I recently bought on DC penshow, I like this pen but it's scratchy on writing (I mean stroking) from left to right. I inspected the nib, what I discovered. It is actualy left tine is little bit lower than right. Besides Left tine has lager size (height) and the tines forms the figure like trapezoid, where vertical sides of the are parralel and top and bottom are not. In addition most other nibs I explored ahve tines touching each other, this one has some space between them. The space is not big (may be 1/10 of tine width) but definitle is there. It does not affect on ink delivery in bad way like skipping. This nib is perfect for me but scratchy.

Unless I completely misunderstand this, it sounds to me that you have a defective nib. Could you post a picture or scan of the nib?

 

How is the one tine lower than the right? When you hold the pen in the writing position, and you bring the pen down to the paper, is one tine bent forward more so that it touches the paper first?

In this case they are misaligned, which can be corrected with your fingernail fairly easily.

 

Or is one tine shorter than the other? That is a defect.

 

The gap between the two tine tops should not be there either, but it should be judged only if the tines are aligned. As you stated already, from your own observations on other pens, the tips should touch. If they don´t, when the tines are aligned, essentially it should be considered a faulty pen.

 

It can be adjusted fairly easily with a bit of luck, but first and foremost the tines should be aligned.

 

Also, no smoothing or grinding should be done prior to proper aligning the tines, and setting the proper space between the tines, i.e., no space between the actual tips. Smoothing and/or grinding before that is done, wil only result in a totally ruined nib, and hence a ruined pen.

 

And yes, it is possible to create a smaller point from a wider one, but you´ll have to make sure first whether this is not a faulty pen, based on the above.

 

So, please let us know...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[Roger]

In Dutch you separate different parts of a sentence with commas, and it supposedly is obligatory, but in English it isn´t. Once I got he commas in the right places, I understood .

[RANT] In my school days, it was obligatory in english as well, Wim, but we've become very lazy, nowadays. That, plus a new fangled, whiz-bang, K-12 education system in the U.S. that doesn't pound the fundamentals into the pupil, preferring, instead, to be more concerned with the pupil's self esteem...well, you get my drift. [/RANT]