I have a Snorkel Saratoga with SF3 nib.

[oliverob]

The only problem being that, from what I gather, these stub nibs require a special feed and a special snorkel tube, which, unfortunately, did not necessarily come installed along with the special nib, and must have, therefore, been ordered from the factory. Greg Minuskin, to whom I had sent the pen, because it skipped so badly that skip was not the word, he told me that in all his decades of nib work he'd seen maybe four such pens, two with the right feeds, and two without. I then asked help from Ron Zorn, who told me it was possible to accommodate the common Snorkel production feed, but that the normal snorkel tube on these pens needed to be customized as well, in order to allow "more ink and air to move between the tip and the sac." But he couldn't perform the necessary adaptations himself as it had been too long since he'd seen the correct feed and the correct tube, and unfortunately didn't "remember the details well enough to think of copying it".

So in essence, what I've got is a pen with a really extraordinary flex, stub nib I can only use (or sell) as a dip pen. 

Though I'm not in the least optimistic about finding the proper tube or feed, nor of finding someone who can make the required modifications to the ones that came with the pen, I thought I'd throw this out there to the æthereal pen universe, and see what comes back!

Oliver

[inkstainedruth]

Interesting.  I had not run across an SF3 nib (or even the term) before now.  Pretty sure all my Snorkels are nails.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

[oliverob]

Ruth, in my experience, the open-faced nib toting Snorkels, the Admiral, Saratoga, and Sovereign, can have some spring to them, and are in any event softer than their conical nib equipped brethren, though some of those Snorkels you describe as nails are some of my favorite writers. The SF3, stub, flex, nib of the Saratoga, in question, no question about it, has really got some flex to it!

[InkyProf]

Remarkable! -- this sent me looking for pictures, and got me to this Facebook page, which has some pretty cool photos and a short video of writing samples with flexible Snorkels (if you click through using the "X" in the upper right of the popup you should be able to see the images and video even if you're not logged in to FB). Too bad none of the pictures show the feeds, although whatever modifications were involved probably wouldn't be visible in an assembled pen anyway. I hope the æther brings you a solution!

[oliverob]

Thank you for your good wishes, and for the link to the Facebook page. Quite a collection of rather rare Snorkels, and watching the person writing with one of them was awe inspiring, especially when I think of my own scrawl. No, you probably wouldn't be able to descry what made those pens' feeds different, and of course the special snorkel tube, which seems to play an equally important role providing sufficient ink, is retracted in any case. 

I came across my pen totally by accident among pens I gotten years ago and never really paid any attention to. I was quite excited to find it, and equally disappointed by the outcome of my efforts to repair it. So yes, I guess I'll be waiting on the fickle good will of the æthers for help.

Thanks again for your reply!

[bsenn]

I have an FS3Z Snorkel (music nib). I have never written with it, nor disassembled it. I see nothing different about the visible portion of the feed compared to any other Snorkel. However, the plastic piece inside the tube definitely has a different profile than a standard tube. It appears to have more open area than the standard plastic part.

 

Might be worth experimenting with a tube by running progressively larger drill bits down to see if it eventually feeds enough for your stub to write properly.

 

Brian 

[oliverob]

Brian,

Firstly, thank you for your reply and for the very interesting suggestion!

Just to verify, I'm assuming you're referring to the snorkel tub itself, and to the thin, black plastic piece inside the tube. Yes, that sounds like a good approach. The drill bits I have are not long enough to travel all the way down the tube to the interior of the sac, so I suppose I could pull the snorkel tub out of the section plug (I have the appropriate pliers) and work from both ends, which would, in any case, prevent debris from entering the sac. At this juncture in time, I don't feel as if I have anything to lose anyway, and I've got extra tubes if things go awry to the point of my ruining the snorkel tube.

If I decide to do it, or rather when I do, I'll let you know how things turn out.

Oliver

[bsenn]

Yes, I am referring to the thin plastic piece inside the tube. I agree with drilling the tube out of the pen.

[Ron Z]

1 hour ago, bsenn said:

I have an FS3Z Snorkel (music nib). I have never written with it, nor disassembled it. I see nothing different about the visible portion of the feed compared to any other Snorkel. However, the plastic piece inside the tube definitely has a different profile than a standard tube. It appears to have more open area than the standard plastic part.

 

Might be worth experimenting with a tube by running progressively larger drill bits down to see if it eventually feeds enough for your stub to write properly.

 

Brian 

 

All of the changes are inside, above the plug inside the sac.  They actually made cutouts in the snorkel tube to allow more ink into the feed, and the channel in the feed was much wider and deeper than the standard snorkel tube.  I bought the thing back towards the end of 2024.  I found the picture from the listing with the changes to the snorkel tube.   You can see the snorkel tube insert - wide as the Mississippi.  I don't remember whether or not the snorkel tube was longer, but given the cutout on the end, I suspect that it had to be.  The pen sold almost immediately after it was listed.  This is the only pen with this nib and feed that I've seen in 35 years of repairing pens.

 

 

Here's the writing sample

 

[oliverob]

Extraordinary pen, Ron!

I don't quite understand Sheaffer's thinking, outfitting a nib with snorkel tube and feed that don't deliver a sufficient amount of ink.

Did you see InkyProf's link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/109424185805322/posts/8136080759806251/

showing numerous Snorkels with broad, flex nibs, and to judge by the writing samples, they were delivered with the proper equipment.

I'm not sure what to make of it all.

Oliver

[Ron Z]

I will add here that it is possible to get the insert out.  Getting it back in without damaging it while lining up the slit can be a challenge.  If you look closely in the picture you can see that the groove is round, so the wall thickness is pretty thin.  To add to the fun, Sheaffer crimped the inside end of the snorkel tube to hold the insert in place.  You have to grip the insert maybe 1/4" away from the snorkel tube and work it in gradually.  

[oliverob]

I'm going to go ahead and expose myself for the idiot that I am, and ask what the point of extracting the insert would be? Am I to assume we are talking about a "normal" insert, to be taken out in order to alter it to look and function like the insert in the Ron's picture? Or have I completely gone astray? Assuming for the moment that my assumption is correct, by what means would one go about making the necessary alteration? Should I trust myself to accomplish this delicate task. Am I as much a fool as I am an idiot? (No answer necessary!)

[3rdlakerobert]

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/372869-curious-if-anyone-has-seen-one-of-these/page/2/#comment-4632728

 

I posted this in 2023. At the time I was of the opinion that given the correct diameter tube, I could modify a standard Snorkel feed and plug on the lathe to reproduce the nib. The internal feed inside the tube would require a little experimentation, but I bet it could be done.

[Ron Z]

I've usually done it when either the snorkel tube or insert are damaged.    Next to the nib snorkel tubes are the most commonly damaged part on a snorkel and one of the harder parts to find.   I often find the snorkel tube dented, kinked or the end mushed, and it's possible to straighten and work out dents if you can get the insert out.

 

If you have a snorkel tube to spare, go for it.  What I can't tell you was whether the slit in the feed from snorkel tube to nib, or the slit in the end of the snorkel tube was wider or not.  I just don't remember.

[bsenn]

What about using the nib in a non-Snorkel? Probably not as cool, but likely a lot less work to be able to write with the nib.

[Ron Z]

The snorkel nib could screw onto the mount for a TM TD pen.  I don't know if the feed would keep up with the demand or not.

[bsenn]

It's an open nib?

https://www.penhero.com/PenGallery/Sheaffer/SheafferSnorkelNibCodes.htm

[oliverob]

Yes, SF3: The three of course refers to the masked open-face nib as on the Saratoga (or Sovereign).

[3rdlakerobert]

6 hours ago, Ron Z said:

What I can't tell you was whether the slit in the feed from snorkel tube to nib, or the slit in the end of the snorkel tube was wider or not.  I just don't remember.

Look at the second photo in my 2023 post and I think you'll agree that the slit in the tube of the Canadian Snorkel with a flex nib and standard  tube looks larger than the slit in any non-flex tube. I'll take my large-tube, flex Snorkel out later and take more photos. 

 

OP is of course correct in pointing out that he's hoping to fix up a pen with a traditional open flex stub nib. However, I think he's taking on more innovation than he needs to if all he wants to do is get his flex stub working in a Snorkel pen. I'd wager he can adapt the end slit on a standard tube to flow more ink into the feed. That Canadian flex pen in my photo isn't a stub of course. And after all, non-flex stub nibs don't have especially high ink-flow needs.

 

Making the slit wider might be a challenge, but I know there are tiny, thin circular saw blades made to mount in jig that goes in the chuck of a drill press. You'd have to make the new slit extend to the end of the tube. Now it was about 15-20 years ago that I saw these and I can't remember anything about what they were used for--it may have been in penmaking. I was into that stuff then.

[3rdlakerobert]

 

Were the Snorkel tubes on regular production stub and flex pens oversize? I don't think so. I've seen a few flex pens and over a dozen stubs and none have had OS tubes or non-standard feeds. I think the OS tubes and feeds were probably pre-production prototypes. Brian McQueen are you there?

 

Four Snorkel tubes -- to compare the slits:

 

 

 

 

Stub

 

 

 

Canadian Flex - 1st Year

 

 

 

 

 

Oversize Flex

Note: The tines are spread with the tube extended, but with the tube retracted, the tines are spaced properly. I leave it to others to explain that.

 

 

 

Medium Sentinel

 

 

Oversize Flex back view