Pelikan M200 permanent ink suggestion

[patrik.nusszer]

Hello,

 

I have been using Montblanc permanent black in my Pelikan M200 pens and even though initially they wrote very wet with it, the nibs eventually got helplessly clogged, started writing dry and pen flush did not either help (I have not yet tried ammonium based flushes, only surfactant based ones though). Anyone's experience with any permanent ink in their Pelikans would be welcome. How did it work out in the long term? How did you care for the pen with that ink?

[Penguincollector]

  I mostly use iron gall inks in my Pelikans as permanent inks. I just use water to flush them out, but other folks use vinegar solutions, as ammonia will precipitate when it interacts with IG inks. I don’t use ammonia at all, as my Pelikans are old style ones with 14c nibs that when cleaned with ammonia can cause stress corrosion and cracking. 
 

 

[patrik.nusszer]

22 minutes ago, Penguincollector said:

  I mostly use iron gall inks in my Pelikans as permanent inks. I just use water to flush them out, but other folks use vinegar solutions, as ammonia will precipitate when it interacts with IG inks. I don’t use ammonia at all, as my Pelikans are old style ones with 14c nibs that when cleaned with ammonia can cause stress corrosion and cracking. 
 

 

And which is your favourite black iron gall? What percentage of vinegar do you use and how often do you flush with it?

[inkstainedruth]

@patrik.nusszer -- I currently have Pelikan 4001 Blue Black in my M120 Iconic Blue (M nib).  While it is technically an iron gall ink, the iron content is relatively low, compared to some brands.

Some pens I'm a little more cautious about what ink goes in them (the Red Shadow Wave Vac gets Waterman Mysterious Blue and NOTHING else, since that's the ink used when it was being checked out after I bought it).  Others, like the Plum Demi Parker 51?  I didn't think twice about filling it with some Noodler's purple ink (on the grounds that those pliglass sacs were designed for Quink Superchrome (which I gather was pretty noxious an ink).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Penguincollector]

 

4 minutes ago, patrik.nusszer said:

And which is your favourite black iron gall? What percentage of vinegar do you use and how often do you flush with it?

  I really like Rohrer and Klinger Ebony. I use their other IG inks as well. Vinegar 1:10 water is the ratio that is often recommended, but I usually just rinse until the water runs clear. I will sometimes use a small brush on the feed that came with phono needles just to make sure they are clear of anything that may have solidified, but I haven’t actually seen anything.  It’s really more of a preventative. 

[Christopher Godfrey]

Penguincollector wrote:  <...old style ones with 14c nibs that when cleaned with ammonia can cause stress corrosion and cracking>

 

Now you have me worried, although I do not <often> use ammonia -- I had never heard of this potential hazard previously!  So there is concrete evidence for this, is there? 

 

[InkyProf]

The locus classicus: https://vintagepensblog.blogspot.com/2014/09/ammonia-stress-corrosion-cracking-and.html

 

Note that David has more recently posted about changes to the production of latex sacs that make them more vulnerable to damage by ammonia: https://vintagepensblog.blogspot.com/2025/03/premature-latex-sac-failure-and-ammonia.html

 

(Not everyone is persuaded by this perspective, and I'm not a chemist, so I have nothing of my own to contribute here, but I found the caution persuasive enough that I stopped using ammonia -- not that I had used it much to begin with.)

[Penguincollector]

  Thanks, @InkyProf- that’s what I was coming back to link after Champions League (🤬). I also had two Warranted 14 K/C nibs from the 1920s fail after flushing with ammonia right before I happened upon that blog post. 

[Christopher Godfrey]

Yes, thanks, @InkyProf!  Interesting question/consideration in your post.  I read all; but I am not going to lose too much sleep over it, I think.  

[azur3s0ng]

Hero 232 is a very solid iron gall blue-black if you could source a bottle. 4001 blue-black used to be my go-to permanent, but it tends to dry on the nib and causes hard starts. 

[OCArt]

@azur3s0ngYou're absolutely right! Hero 232 blue-black is fantastic and I also like it better than Pelikan 4001.

[Runnin_Ute]

My Pelikan 140 - which is ALWAYS inked, has been inked continuously since it's arrival in August 2017 with Pelikan 4001 Blue Black. It needs a clear water flush no more than three or four times a year. In fact, I don't think it is that frequently. Never a problem.  I empty it, refill it immediately (or within a day or two at most). I go through a LOT of Pelikan 4001 Blue Black. And it isn't even my most used pen although I do use it a few times a week. 

[The Rob]

I have an M205 EF always inked up with Sailor Souboku nanopigment ink. That ink is the very definition of permanent, once it's dried there's nothing that can remove or change it.
I only use it for addresses on envelopes and headlines in my ink book.
For a few years now, I've only refilled it when it was empty, with "empty" meaning "dried up" after half a year - no cleaning.
That worked quite well, but I do admit that I considered it an experiment.
This time a cleaning was finally due, getting flow issues even after a refill. It took me several flushes with Diamine ink cleaner until the breather hole was eventually clean. I didn't separate the nib from the feed, so I can't say for sure whether there was any residue in the feed.
But I think it should be clean now, at least it works perfectly again, hopefully for another few years.

Edited Wednesday at 09:55 AM by The Rob

[inkstainedruth]

After a bad experience with a shimmer ink in a semi-vintage Pelikan (I didn't get it sufficiently flushed out and ended up snapping the piston rod  in two), I'm a bit more careful about when inks go in my Pelikans.  OTOH, I do like Souboku a lot, and ran it for the longest time in a Pilot Falcon (and now have that ink in the Sailor 1911 S "Wicked Witch of the West" pen, with the music nib on it -- although thinking that maybe that nib might be a little TOO broad/wet...).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth