Two inks, two uses ...

[yazeh]

If I may add to the valuable scientific insights already shared, I think the deeper question is this:

Can I live with the potential consequences of using a given ink in a vintage pen with emotional or historical value?

 

There’s no universal right or wrong answer—it all depends on your personal tolerance for risk.

 

Some people play it safe and use only Waterman Serenity Blue. Others happily use shimmer inks, knowing they can service the pen later. Some swear by Noodler’s bulletproof inks. Many opt for iron gall inks, especially in wet vintage pens, since they can “tame” the flow and improve performance.

 

We often try to preserve objects—and memories—forever. But permanence is a myth. A treasured pen might be dropped, lost, chewed by a pet, or damaged in ways we can’t predict.

 

So in the end, perhaps the best measure is whether the ink-pen combination makes your soul sing. If it does, and you’re aware of the risks, then maybe that’s enough.

 

One last note: with an EF, wet vintage pen—like a Pelikan—you can often use nearly any black, dark grey, blue-black, or brown ink. On paper, most will appear close to black unless you do a side-by-side comparison.

[LizEF]

2 hours ago, Mercian said:

If I were you, I would try to get some samples of Aurora Black, J Herbin Perle Noire, Pelikan 4001 Black, and Edelstein Onyx, and see which of them appeals most to you, and works best in your pens.

Yes!  Seconded.  Samples are your friends.

 

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

Writer’s Blood + vintage flex nibs seems unable to grasp that I  don't want waterfalls!

You could try diluting the Writer's Blood a little with distilled water.  Only dilute a sample, in a sample vial or something similar, and keep track of how many drops of water you add.  Water makes an ink flow drier, thus taming both the flow, and tendencies to bleed, feather, and spread.  Writer's Blood is sufficiently concentrated, and your pens sufficiently wet, that you may be able to find a happy medium simply by dilution.  Once you find the right dilution, you can recreate it any time you go to ink the pen.

• You do NOT want to dilute the whole bottle - this will dilute the biocide and make the ink vulnerable to things like mold.
• Oddly, adding water may also aid in readability should the ink ever get wet - if there's enough dye left behind to read at all, then one problem with concentrated inks like Writer's Blood is that a little water smears it all around and you cannot read a thing.  Contrary to instinct, rinsing off all that free-floating dye may leave the stained paper fibers legible.  You would have to experiment to see how the ink does with a few simulated rain drops versus letting a faucet wash away what it will...

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

As it stands, the combination of that pen with Writer’s Blood delivers puddles rather than text.

Writer's Blood is a dripping wet ink - it's just absurdly wet.  I'm not sure why Diamine did that - perhaps r/fountainpens asked for dripping wet, or perhaps chemistry required it to attain that color - I don't know.

 

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

Do the water-resistant swabs on the InkSwatch website reflect practical water resistance?

Their intent is just to show the ink off.  If you click on a swatch, it will give you links to reviews they know about - these would be more reliable.

 

 

[Tommaso Santojanni]

I apologise for my silence; as I mentioned, my free time is very limited, and recent developments in the pen world have absorbed what little remains of it. I hope to return to this post imminently. Lots to thank for and comment.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

After a rather long week, the weekend is now in sight, and I am at last able to set aside a moment to reply. What little time I managed to find during the past days was consumed by the thread on OMAS in which some remarks were less than kind. Mistrust is, of course, understandable to a degree, but…

 

I did, finally, read every post in this thread with care, and gained a good deal from the discussion. My thanks to all who took the time to contribute, it was very much appreciated.
 

I have since written to all the ink manufacturers in question, and received replies from all but Noodler’s. In essence, their advice is unanimous: abandon all hope of water resistance, let alone indelibility, unless one resorts to use iron gall or pigment-based formulations.

 

Accordingly, I have resolved thus:

1. Adopt the habit of rinsing each pen twice over whenever it is refilled.
2. employ two inks in the red-brown range: one for the letter itself (Writer’s Blood), using my preferred instruments; the other, water-resistant (exact colour yet to be determined), for addressing the envelope.
3. testing these: Aurora Black, Bulletproof Noodler’s Black, J Herbin Perle Noire, Edelstein Onyx, and Lamy Black (currently in use).

@yazeh and @Mercian Thank you for teaching me how to quote, it does help to keep posts compact, and avoids clogging the thread, even if some prefer to maintain separate entries, within a discussion, so as not to bury information within longer replies.

 

On 6/16/2025 at 8:04 PM, yazeh said:

Sometimes, one asks a question and gets so many answers and possibilities that one gets lost and wonders, "Why did I ask this question? " The best way is to let it percolate. And then decide. Often times the solution is simple.

Precisely what I was obliged to do, due to time constraints, and I must confirm that it does help!

 

On 6/16/2025 at 10:59 PM, Mercian said:

 Have you ever read (or seen the film of) Catch-22?

You just reminded me of the scene in which the very old Italian owner of the, er, 'recreational establishment for lonely men' explains to a boastful American serviceman how it is that the strongest nation in the world is not Nazi Germany, nor the mighty USA, but is instead Italy 

I found two versions. One 1970's and one, more recent, with George Clooney. I'll watch it over the weekend. If I find the time.

 

On 6/16/2025 at 11:36 PM, Lithium466 said:

Here's an overview (albeit in what appears to be a barbaric language):

France is really just a mass that one must cross en route to Italy. They copied our wine, their cheese smells of feet, their sense of fashion is only suited for women and their most important historical figure was Italian and, true to form, got a good beating from the Brits. They even their hand at cars with consistently tragic outcomes. One wonders what they might attempt next. Opera, perhaps? Or coffee? Judging by their espresso, we may rest easy.

 

@InesF Thank you for the very technical explanation, which I have earmarked for future reference. Most impressive!

 

On 6/18/2025 at 8:02 PM, yazeh said:

We often try to preserve objects—and memories—forever. But permanence is a myth. A treasured pen might be dropped, lost, chewed by a pet, or damaged in ways we can’t predict.

True, no pen is immune to time, misfortune or pets. Yet what pens create may well outlast us all. Ink on paper, in the right hands, becomes something close to eternal. But one still needs the pen to put the former to the latter.

 

On 6/18/2025 at 8:19 PM, LizEF said:

Writer's Blood is a dripping wet ink - it's just absurdly wet.  I'm not sure why Diamine did that - perhaps r/fountainpens asked for dripping wet, or perhaps chemistry required it to attain that color - I don't know.

I ought to report that a gentleman at Diamine informed me, entirely unsolicited, that a new ink, visually identical to Writer’s Blood, is undergoing trials. He has kindly offered to send me a sample. The key distinction lies in its flow characteristics: this new formulation is drier.

 

On 6/16/2025 at 8:04 PM, yazeh said:

Sometimes, one asks a question and gets so many answers and possibilities that one gets lost and wonders, "Why did I ask this question? " The best way is to let it percolate. And then decide. Often times the solution is simple.

 

As an aside, or perhaps slightly off topic, may I inform all those residing in Britain that on the 8th of July, Mr Gianluca Malaguti Simoni, the new proprietor of OMAS and grandson of its founder Armando Simoni, will be flying to London to join me for lunch. I have asked whether I might invite a few enthusiasts, afterwards, for a brief and private anteprima of the new pen that so many, in another thread, believe does not exist. He has kindly agreed. If you are based in England and would care to attend, do feel free to send me a private message and I shall be glad to invite you along.

 

Thank you again to all who contributed. Very insightful indeed!

Tommaso

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

I ought to report that a gentleman at Diamine informed me, entirely unsolicited, that a new ink, visually identical to Writer’s Blood, is undergoing trials. He has kindly offered to send me a sample. The key distinction lies in its flow characteristics: this new formulation is drier.

 

1 hour ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

France is really just a mass that one must cross en route to Italy. They copied our wine, their cheese smells of feet, their sense of fashion is only suited for women and their most important historical figure was Italian and, true to form, got a good beating from the Brits. They even their hand at cars with consistently tragic outcomes. One wonders what they might attempt next. Opera, perhaps? Or coffee? Judging by their espresso, we may rest easy.

Oh snap!  (As they used to say.)

[yazeh]

 

2 hours ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

France is really just a mass that one must cross en route to Italy. They copied our wine, their cheese smells of feet, their sense of fashion is only suited for women and their most important historical figure was Italian and, true to form, got a good beating from the Brits. They even their hand at cars with consistently tragic outcomes. One wonders what they might attempt next. Opera, perhaps? Or coffee? Judging by their espresso, we may rest easy.=

Oh là là! Aux armes citoyens! Now don't get your pasta in a twist. 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

Now don't get your pasta in a twist. 

[lamarax]

5 hours ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

France is really just a mass that one must cross en route to Italy. They copied our wine, their cheese smells of feet, their sense of fashion is only suited for women and their most important historical figure was Italian and, true to form, got a good beating from the Brits. They even their hand at cars with consistently tragic outcomes. One wonders what they might attempt next. Opera, perhaps? Or coffee? Judging by their espresso, we may rest easy.

 

 

 

(TBH, Gorgonzola also smells like feet)

[Tommaso Santojanni]

Yes, of course, I must unabashedly admit that gorgonzola is not much kinder to the sense of smell!

 

Monty Python – a legend indeed. I had, for a time, the good fortune of being close to Mr Gilliam’s charming daughter, before she wisely concluded that Italians are best kept as friends.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

@Mercian A very good morning to you, dear Mercian,

It would appear that all inky matters are, by common consent, referred to you, and that you are regarded as a guru of sorts... I therefore wonder whether you might be willing to name, in your view, the best two or three ink manufacturers.

A fountain pen house is considering entrusting the creation of a dedicated ink line. And, if it is not too much to ask, might you also point out whom you consider an expert in the field of paper?

[Tommaso Santojanni]

 

On 6/27/2025 at 8:05 PM, Tommaso Santojanni said:

3. testing these: Aurora Black, Bulletproof Noodler’s Black, J Herbin Perle Noire, Edelstein Onyx, and Lamy Black (currently in use).

I have finally tested these five black inks and these are my very personal findings that might not be shared by everyone.

• J Herbin’s Perle Noire is visibly lighter than the preceding two in darkness. It flows agreeably and dries relatively quickly, though perhaps slightly slower than Noodler’s. However, one morning I observed a subtle hint of shading, which I do not care for in my inks. It offers no water resistance. It also exhibits slight feathering on lower-grade paper, rendering it unsuitable for my everyday pen. This too, therefore, has been eliminated from my roster of possible inks.
• Edelstein Onyx, from Pelikan a house that I greatly admire, initially seemed promising and was my favourite. Regrettably, upon discovering the shading in Perle Noire, I examined all others and the Onyx too exhibited a shading or sheen of its own. That alone ruled it out. Its black is rich, though less profound than either Aurora or Noodler’s. It glides beautifully in extra fine nibs and becomes near-uncontrollable in smoother ones! A runaway train! It is entirely non-waterproof and suffers from slow drying, another reason for its exclusion. Very sad. I wanted this one to win!
• Aurora Black remains, to my eye, the darkest of the lot. It flows exceptionally well, with a gratifying smoothness even in my extra fine non-flex nibs. Perhaps I find it too wet in more generous writers such as my OMAS and Pelikan 400NN. Its greatest drawback, however, is the drying time, lamentably slow and wholly unsuited to note-taking in a business setting. The nail in its coffin, for my purposes, was its behaviour on poor-quality paper, where it tends to feather, thereby limiting its practicality as ink for everyday pens that must perform reliably on all papers. Moreover, it offers no resistance whatsoever to water. Despite its visual excellence, my favourite in terms of richness and depth, I was, with some reluctance, obliged to eliminate it from my roster.
• Lamy Black, which I have been using for several years now, remained the last contender and a strong performer for my personal needs. Though perhaps slightly lighter and greyer than both the Aurora or the Noodler’s, it is a solid, dependable black. Thankfully, it exhibits neither sheen nor shading. Its flow is consistent, its drying time swift, and its performance steady across all types of paper. My runner up!
• Noodler’s Black presents a curious case: it's permanent and waterproof, though it contains neither pigment nor iron gall, a fact that I have verified. Its tone is nearly as deep as Aurora’s, albeit without the same gloss. Most commendably, it dries much faster than the Aurora and performs admirably on inferior paper, making it the most suitable for use in an everyday pen that must write on all papers and dry quickly in a professional environment.

 

The only drawback is the exceedingly high price: £29.50 88ml in Great Britain!! Could anyone recommend a more competitive retailer than Etsy and Amazon in England for this ink?
 

My personal summary:
– For permanence, function and my requirements, Noodler’s Black wins.

– For richness and depth, I would choose Aurora Black.
– For everyday affordability and reliability, Lamy Black remains my choice.
The remaining two are rather too fanciful and unsuitable for my purposes.

Thank you to all who recommended that I try these. I am now testing the Writer's Blood substitute and shall provide an update in due course.

Tommaso

[Karmachanic]

Sorry, late to the party.  Don't recall where I found this years ago.

 

[Tommaso Santojanni]

Oh, nice to see you on this thread, @Karmachanic !!

Your post is helpful, thank you. After looking into the samples that you posted, and selecting for waterproof, I will have to eliminate Montblanc and Sailor, as these are not pigment and iron gall free. But Noodler's Heart of Darkness seems a possible contender to Noodler's Black.

 

In this discussion, several members reached a general consensus regarding suitable black inks for my particular use case: namely, rapid minute-taking during meetings and consistent performance on everyday paper.

 

My own discernment, balancing a personal preference for the deepest possible black with the advice offered, led me to prioritise the following characteristics, in this order:

1. The deepest possible black that also:

2. Does not contain pigment or iron gall,

3. Is not prone to feathering on poor-quality paper (in everyday use I do encounter poor paper),

4. Flows very well (but in keeping with point 3) as my nibs are extra fine,

5. Dries quickly enough for practical note-taking.

While waterproofness is a most welcome bonus, it is not the principal quality I am selecting for.

From the other thread I gather that you do not reside in Great Britain. Where do you purchase your ink from?

OT and P.S.: I hope that you can overcome the legitimate and understandable reservations and join us today at 6pm Bologna time for the unveiling of the new OMAS with the original 1939 nibs. If you really feel uncomfortable in overcoming the registration process, I will post images of the new OMAS in that thread later tonight or tomorrow morning.
 

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

it contains neither pigment nor iron gall, a fact that I have verified

I'm curious how you verified it! It's been a debate in the community for some time. Here's a particularly good thread on the matter:

 

4 hours ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

But Noodler's Heart of Darkness seems a possible contender to Noodler's Black.

Heart of Darkness doesn't do as well on poor paper (top of each image is puzzle paper - similar to newsprint, bottom is copy paper):

 

Heart of Darkness:

[Tommaso Santojanni]

3 minutes ago, LizEF said:

I'm curious how you verified it!

I simply searched it online 🤷‍♂️ but, if the information that I found turns out to be inaccurate, it would call my decision into question, as I am keen to avoid pigments and iron gall in my vintage pens.

Thank you for your very, very useful images as this ink will, often, be used on rather poor paper.

[Karmachanic]

4 hours ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

Where do you purchase your ink from?

 

Wherever I can get it!  Italy, Germany, Japan, China, UK.  For an obscure blackety black there's Mitsanshudo Sumi.  Looks and smells like Sumi, but is fountain pen ink, but Japan.

 

Looking forward to your images.  By that time I imagine all 125 pens will safely be in the hands of aficionados.

[LizEF]

51 minutes ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

I simply searched it online 🤷‍♂️ but, if the information that I found turns out to be inaccurate, it would call my decision into question, as I am keen to avoid pigments and iron gall in my vintage pens.

Thanks!  I found (more like re-found) some info that may solve the issue of why it seems like a pigment ink (e.g. under the microscope) but is not a pigment ink.  This is from Richard Binder's site:

Quote

Noodler’s “bulletproof” inks contain a component that causes the dye in the ink to bond chemically with the paper. Unfortunately, this bonding agent is particulate, not in solution. It settles, and you have to shake the bottle to disperse it when filling a pen. It also settles in the pen, and it can cause clogs.

So, it seems that the particulate appearance in microscope images is the bonding agent, not a pigment.  Now we know.  I know know whether that impacts your decision or not.  I have no knowledge of vintage pens, so I can't help further.  I just wanted to be sure you knew what you were getting.

[Tommaso Santojanni]

@LizEF thank you for this useful information.

I must admit, now I’m not quite sure how best to follow up on your information or how to proceed from here. Perhaps those with greater experience might comment on whether this bonding agent poses any risk to vintage pens? Of course the company swears by its safety in vintage pens.

[TSherbs]

19 minutes ago, Tommaso Santojanni said:

@LizEF thank you for this useful information.

I must admit, now I’m not quite sure how best to follow up on your information or how to proceed from here. Perhaps those with greater experience might comment on whether this bonding agent poses any risk to vintage pens? Of course the company swears by its safety in vintage pens.

 

Ah, Noodler's ink in vintage pens... can't wait to see the range of responses 

 

[Tommaso Santojanni]

Just now, TSherbs said:

 

Ah, Noodler's ink in vintage pens... can't wait to see the range of responses 

 

 

Why? Did I open the proverbial can of worms?