Drier flowing warm grey inks than Pilot Iroshizuku Kiri-same

[tommym]

It has come to my attention that Pilot Iroshizuku Kiri-same has been discontinued.  That said, I have found Kiri-same's flow is a bit too wet for my smaller EFF nibs. Does anyone have any recommendations for a drier flowing ink in Kiri-same's warm grey color spectrum? I use J. Herbin Gris Nuage in my 1.1 and 1.5 stub nibs, but it is too light when used with my smaller EEF nibs.  I should add that my EEFs are from Kanwrite and are on the Western side of nib widths.

 

Thanks,

 

Tommy

[JungleJim]

Tommy---

 

I recommend you take a look at this list compiled by LizEF which has listings of her ink reviews using a Japanese EF nib, along with her impressions and a link to the thorough review on Youtube. You should be able to find the grey you want.

 

Just look down Column "D" to determine the color of ink.

 

Link:   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FZFywY7XQn07uOzayBBPMXNBOO0FlaYz3IfalIYBpy0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

 

All the Best.

[tommym]

51 minutes ago, JungleJim said:

Tommy---

 

I recommend you take a look at this list compiled by LizEF which has listings of her ink reviews using a Japanese EF nib, along with her impressions and a link to the thorough review on Youtube. You should be able to find the grey you want.

 

Just look down Column "D" to determine the color of ink.

 

Link:   https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FZFywY7XQn07uOzayBBPMXNBOO0FlaYz3IfalIYBpy0/edit?gid=0#gid=0

 

All the Best.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Tommy

[LizEF]

De Atramentis Document Urban Grey is a marvelous warm grey, but alas, it's wet, and unless you want a permanent ink, may be more than you want on the maintenance side...

 

Monteverde Smoke Noir isn't as warm, and writes a really fat line - is it flow that has you concerned, or line width?

 

Pelikan Edelstein Moonstone might be a good contender, though not the finest line on the planet (but the same as Kiri-Same).

 

Those are my best guesses, FWIW.  (Apparently there are a lot of greys I haven't reviewed yet.)

[lamarax]

Graf von Faber-Castell 'Stone Grey', no more no less 🙂

[tommym]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

Monteverde Smoke Noir isn't as warm, and writes a really fat line - is it flow that has you concerned, or line width?

 

Just before the pen runs out of ink (for a page or two) is when the nib writes its finest and cleanest lines. That is why I'm thinking it's the ink flow?

 

Tommy

[tommym]

2 hours ago, lamarax said:

Graf von Faber-Castell 'Stone Grey', no more no less 🙂

 

Thanks, I'll have a look-see at that one, too.

 

Tommy

[Penguincollector]

  I like Diamine Silver Fox and Pelikan Edelstein Moonstone. 

[LizEF]

11 hours ago, tommym said:

Just before the pen runs out of ink (for a page or two) is when the nib writes its finest and cleanest lines. That is why I'm thinking it's the ink flow?

 

Tommy

Right, if you want the finest lines possible, filter my spreadsheet by color, and sort by line width - the smaller the number, the narrower the line.  While wet inks usually write a finer wider line, and dry inks usually write a thinner line, that's not a guarantee.  Go by the line width instead!

 

That said, "cleanest" lines is harder to judge - if you look at my line width photos¹, you'll see that some have more even and clearly defined edges.  It's really hard to say what causes that - part of me wants to say that the ink has to be wet, but wet can follow fibers; part of me says dry, because high surface tension will keep the edges together, but some of those show gaps in the line...  My guess is it's some combination of factors and therefore almost impossible to predict - samples are your friends!

 

¹The FPN review link is the easiest way to do that, not YouTube - I added a lot of line widths measurements and images well after I'd been doing reviews for a while - but I went back and added them to all the FPN threads - so every review on FPN has it somewhere in the thread.  (I did not attempt to go back and update the videos, and I doubt I even went back and added a link to the still image.)

[LizEF]

7 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

  I like Diamine Silver Fox and Pelikan Edelstein Moonstone. 

Silver Fox is very cool (color temperature-wise).  But it is in the spreadsheet, in case @tommym wishes to compare.

[InkyProf]

7 hours ago, tommym said:

Graf von Faber-Castell 'Stone Grey'

 

Seconded!

[Lithium466]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

  While wet inks usually write a finer line, and dry inks usually write a thinner line, that's not a guarantee.  Go by the line width instead!

This sentence is having me all confused...Is there some English subtlety that I'm missing here?

[Penguincollector]

3 hours ago, LizEF said:

Silver Fox is very cool (color temperature-wise).  But it is in the spreadsheet, in case @tommym wishes to compare.

 

  Ahh, I was so busy looking at the spreadsheet, that I forgot about that particular criteria. For what it’s worth, Inkswatch has Kaweco Smokey Grey as  a close match, and Octopus Fluids Pebble Stone is a warmer grey. 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, Lithium466 said:

This sentence is having me all confused...Is there some English subtlety that I'm missing here?

Thank you!  I fixed it - wet inks usually write a wider line...

[LizEF]

38 minutes ago, Penguincollector said:

Ahh, I was so busy looking at the spreadsheet, that I forgot about that particular criteria. For what it’s worth, Inkswatch has Kaweco Smokey Grey as  a close match, and Octopus Fluids Pebble Stone is a warmer grey. 

 

https://www.InkSwatch.com is another great source!  @tommym, click on a tile and if there are reviews of the specific ink (that InkSwatch know about), they'll be linked there.

[Lithium466]

24 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Thank you!  I fixed it - wet inks usually write a wider line...

I was trying to find the difference between finer and thinner and that was way above my abilities 😱

[tommym]

6 hours ago, LizEF said:

My guess is it's some combination of factors and therefore almost impossible to predict - samples are your friends!

 

 

 

Yes, I'll order some ink sample vials (if available) of the mentioned inks next week.  

 

Tommy

[tommym]

Welp, via some additional input from my friend, I think I've found an acceptable solution. 

 

My friend suggested that I try a watered-down 80/20 mix of Kiri-same and distilled water to see if that might be a possible solution for my needs and wants. He noticed in my writing sample that I sent to him for review that when the nib started to run out of ink, the line did get lighter in color, but overall, the line width appeared (to him) to be the same. In his opinion, it was more the color shift to a lighter shade and the increase in tactile feel as the nib ran low on ink that gave me the "illusion" of a finer and cleaner line.  I gave his suggestion a go, and I like what I see and feel. Another benefit to this solution is that it stretches my supply of discontinued Kiri-same even further. That's a win/win for me. 

 

In the attached image below, the non-diluted Kiri-same is shown on the left page, and the diluted 80/20 mix is on the right page. Also on the right page, my vertically written notes (corrections and afterthoughts) use my homebrewed faux-bril green ink mix. This color combination works nicely (for me) with light grey inks, but falls apart as the ink gets darker. Thus, my current preference is for a lighter grey ink for the bulk of my writing. The writing sample is done in an Apica CD-15 soft-covered journal, my preferred journal at this time.  Please forgive me for my incoherent notes to myself.  

 

Thanks for everyone's input!

 

Tommy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, tommym said:

watered-down 80/20 mix of Kiri-same and distilled water

Sometimes the simple solution is the best solution!  NOTE: I wouldn't recommend adding distilled water to the whole bottle, or even large volumes at once.  In addition to diluting the dye, you'll dilute the biocide, and that could leave the diluted ink vulnerable to mold and other organic stuff.  Instead, dilute small volumes as needed.  More of a pain, perhaps, but much safer.

[tommym]

33 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Sometimes the simple solution is the best solution!  NOTE: I wouldn't recommend adding distilled water to the whole bottle, or even large volumes at once.  In addition to diluting the dye, you'll dilute the biocide, and that could leave the diluted ink vulnerable to mold and other organic stuff.  Instead, dilute small volumes as needed.  More of a pain, perhaps, but much safer.

 

Yes, I used a 10 ml syringe and a used but clean ink sample vial for the initial test. Future batches will be larger, but I definitely won't do the whole bottle. Good point about the biocide!

 

Tommy