Vintage Duofold Senior with 4 narrow cap rings?

[Paul-in-SF]

This is an eBay listing. 

 

I have never seen a vintage Duofold of any kind with 4 narrow cap rings (2 of them are missing, but there are clearly grooves intended for them) The seller added, at my request, some photos of the barrel inscription, which is nearly worn off but which seems about right as far as one can tell. The cap finial doesn't look right, it appears in most photos to be smooth rather than having the narrow vertical grooves that they usually have, but the 6th photos seems to show vertical lines of some sort, so it may just be very worn, like the barrel. The size is described as 5-1/2", which roughly corresponds to the 139 mm size of a pre-Streamlined Senior or possibly Senior Deluxe or Imperial, which I have seen with 2 or 3 narrow rings, or one broader ring. 

 

I'm assuming from what I can see that this is a legitimate Parker product (opinions to the contrary are, of course, welcome). I'm wondering what accounts for the 4 rings: 1 or 2 rings added after the fact by an ambitious owner; short-lived test version or "extra Deluxe" model; or ???

 

Or am I the only person to whom this is surprising? Thanks for any experience or input.

[bsenn]

Are the two rings actually in grooves? Perhaps the cap shrunk and the rings were just pushed further up the cap.

[Paul-in-SF]

That would be plausible, but from the photos they sure seem to be seated in grooves. For one thing, the spacing is perfect, which I wouldn't expect if they were loose. Maybe impossible to be sure without in-person checking.

[Wahl]

Had a similar case with a Conklin, which had 4 cap rings, while the original model only has three.

 

Upon inspection by an expert, (Alfonso Mur) ,it turned out that the lower part of the cap had been cut, and been replaced with part of another pen which fit exactly, and the job was expertly done !

[Paul-in-SF]

37 minutes ago, Wahl said:

Had a similar case with a Conklin, which had 4 cap rings, while the original model only has three.

 

Upon inspection by an expert, (Alfonso Mur) ,it turned out that the lower part of the cap had been cut, and been replaced with part of another pen which fit exactly, and the job was expertly done !

 

Ha! I hadn't thought of that. I wonder whether, if this happened, it would make the cap taller (at the finial end) and thereby make the capped pen measure longer (also making the space around the nib larger). It would be an interesting study, if one had enough other Parker caps to look at, to see which other pen caps were possibly joined in this way. 

 

It's almost worth buying just to see what I could see. 

[FarmBoy]

Many a Mandarin cap have grafted lips. 

[VacNut]

The cracked edge of the cap is removed and the graft is commonly hidden by the cap bands.

Although in this case, it is a little odd that they grafted a cap edge without bands. There usually is less than 1/4” from the bands down to the cap edge, so a graft would result in a longer cap. Is the cap longer than the common duofold?

[Paul-in-SF]

17 hours ago, VacNut said:

Is the cap longer than the common duofold?

 

Hard to tell from the photos, the auction is still going on. A closer look at one of the photos appears to show that the space between the 2nd and 3rd rings is larger than the other two spaces between rings, which does encourage the idea of a graft.

 

19 hours ago, FarmBoy said:

Many a Mandarin cap have grafted lips. 

 

Would they be likely to add rings? That seems like hubris. 

[joss]

On 3/22/2025 at 5:45 PM, Paul-in-SF said:

Ha! I hadn't thought of that. I wonder whether, if this happened, it would make the cap taller (at the finial end) and thereby make the capped pen measure longer (also making the space around the nib larger). It would be an interesting study, if one had enough other Parker caps to look at, to see which other pen caps were possibly joined in this way.

 

The breather hole is correctly located in the centre of the cap suggesting that the cap still has the correct length. The two grooves also appear to be at a correct distance to the clip bottom, while the two cap rings appear to sit closer to the clip than normal. 

Below is a comparison, the picture on the right is of a Sr Duofold that was for sale here, although the exact lengths in the picture may be distorted due to the angle at which the pictures were taken.

 

[Paul-in-SF]

@joss,Thanks for the comparison photo. There are a couple of other apparent differences -- the clip appears longer and lacks the patent information; and the rings are flat/flush to the cap, while the two existing rings on the eBay pen appear to be a little proud of the cap material. The eBay pen's clip could easily be from another pen, even a different model if it really is shorter. The nib on the eBay pen is also from another pen. 

[Paul-in-SF]

Well, I ended up buying this thing, and now I am glad I did. It seems like quite a solid example if its kind (except for the extra rings and the missing rings). I have another Senior Flattop to compare it to, and I find the following: the caps and the pens are the same length; the bottom two rings on this pen are in the same position as the two rings on my earlier pen; looking on the inside under lighted magnification, I can see no sign of any join. It seems clear (as far as I have eyes to see) that the extra two rings were added to the cap, rather than being the result of a join -- and I have no idea why that was done. As I noted above, the nib and feed are from a bit later than the ones on my pen -- mine has a Christmas tree feed and the nib just says "Parker Duofold Pen P" with no decoration at all; this pen has (I think it's called) a comb feed, and the nib has a 10-feathers-each-side arrow design, and says "Parker U.S.A."

 

I shall see if it loads ink, and then decide if I'm going to take it apart to clean and polish it. 

[joss]

That is a nice buy. A 10 feather nib is documented as a Parker original replacement nib for a 1920s-30s Duofold (is that a date code 9 on the nib?), while a comb feed would be rather unusual.

Are the two top rings in grooves? If not, could they be the two original rings that are trying to travel to the north? 

[Paul-in-SF]

7 hours ago, joss said:

Are the two top rings in grooves?

 

 

Holy cow, you have solved it! I thought they were in grooves because they didn't seem to want to move, but apparently what was keeping them in place was a build-up of crud underneath, and they came right off the lip of the cap once moved. So fixing this back to normal will involve (ideally) replacing or replating one of the rings, which is badly brassed, and finding someone who can swage them back into place, and then carefully polishing out the places where they had previously migrated to. 

 

Thank you @joss. Sometimes I could just kick myself. 

 

I also have to replace the sac and pressure bar, as they are worn out and not functioning. That's relatively easy. 

 

edited to add: Yes, there is a 9 code at the bottom of the nib, well spotted. What does that mean?