Nib crud again!

[Claes]

I am trying to understand if there are certain inks that are cruddier than others -- and if so: why.

 

The latest crudder is Barock/Bordeaux, which I filled a Pilot VP <F> with.

 

 

Then I preformed Horizontal Paper Chromatography using three papers qualities (from top: Chinese high-quality paper intended for ink painting [Sumi-E], a high quality office copier paper, and last a sheet of Clairefontaine Notemaker. The inks were Barock/Bordeaux, Waterman Serenity Blue, and Diamine Oxblood.

 

 

My question to self was "Can these droppings indicate any tendency for Crudding? [@InesF?]

The surprise came when I shone a light on two of the bottom drops:

 

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

[LizEF]

Certain dyes will form crystals as they dry. Therefore, evaporation is part of the problem, which also suggests that an ink with high dye concentration would crust sooner.  While I think any color could do this (if it has a dye that crystalizes), it's most common in orange inks.

[Dillo]

As long as the crystals are completely water soluble and dissolve when they are exposed to water, it shouldn't be a problem. What I worry about more is crystallization that does not dissolve easily such as with the inks that use the Allura red dye such as Pelikan Brilliant Red, Diamine Orange, and Diamine Hope Pink

[Bo Bo Olson]

The only ink I've used with ink crud was Diamine's Ancient Copper.  At first, it was fine, but I laid the pen down, and came back to it a few weeks alter...and NIB CRUD!!!

I'm not sure the color was all that worth risking that nib crud again.

[InesF]

14 hours ago, Claes said:

[...] "Can these droppings indicate any tendency for Crudding? [@InesF?]

No, unfortunately not.

They are more an indicator for predicting ink behaviour on paper which depends on surface tension of the ink and open pores (=wick effect) of the paper.

 

Nib crud is dependent on the total dissolved (plus suspended) solids in the ink and on the evaporation of the nib unit (total gas volume in the cap plus air exchange possibility). Not evaporating liquid components of the ink, such as glycerol, will also accumulate during evaporation but will not form crud (it will form a liquid layer you may not notice).

You may get a rough estimation when letting a drop of defined volume dry on a glass plate - and even better when comparing the residues of typical "cruders" which others.

 

And, nib crud is nasty and ugly but not dangerous to the nib. Even if it clogs the feed, it will not destroy it.

[Anne-Sophie]

Herbin Rose Cyclamen causes crud.

 

Is there a way to add something to it so, it stops doing that.

[encremental]

It is air that causes the crud, if you have what seems to be a problem ink (i.e. almost all oranges and yellows, or colours that use those saturated dyes as part of their makeup) just use that ink in an airtight pen. Problem solved - or rather irritation solved, as it has never been a real problem.

 

John

 

[LizEF]

7 hours ago, InesF said:

and even better when comparing the residues of typical "cruders" which others.

To avoid changing the sound of the "u" from that in "crud" to that in "crude", one must add another "d" when creating this word: "crudders" - kind of like "udders", but with a "c" in front.   (Do sea cows have udders?  If so, we could call them c-udders. )

 

[yazeh]

7 hours ago, encremental said:

It is air that causes the crud,

Or you can write in vacuum/ or in space  

[lapis]

Air isn't the real problem. If that were the case, any ink (and/or any colour of an ink) would cause crud to form in one and the same pen which doesn't have a cap sealing off as well as it actually should (e.g. a Safari or AL-star pen). Ditto after one and the same length of time. Crud forms in fact more likely due to the form of the molecules of the dyes used. In most -- but not all -- cases, those in red inks. Red inks (and, again, a few others) include molecules which are more soluble, but unfortunately provide less intensity than most other dye colour molecules.

Our perception of red light involves longer wavelengths than, say, those of blue. Sure, that doesn't interest you or the pen, but it does necessitate that more red dye molecules and thus more red dye material has to be dissolved in its solute to make a readable line, so that sooner or later more of such ink will end up evaporating and precipitating out onto the nib.

Nonetheless, don't worry. Be happy that any such crud (due to its good solubility) is usually easily dissolved and thus quickly washed out and off of your nib. With plain, ordinary tap water (better yet: de-ionized or filtered water). Finally, don’t forget to keep your pen cap on nice and tight and don't leave your pen filled and unused for too long a time.

Whew

[kestrel]

11 hours ago, LizEF said:

  (Do sea cows have udders?  If so, we could call them c-udders. )

 

Sea cows DO have udders and they are located in the arm (flipper?) pits.  They're small but productive.  The youngsters grow fast.

[LizEF]

15 minutes ago, kestrel said:

Sea cows DO have udders and they are located in the arm (flipper?) pits.  They're small but productive.  The youngsters grow fast.

  Thanks, @kestrel!

[InesF]

On 2/3/2025 at 4:39 PM, LizEF said:

To avoid changing the sound of the "u" from that in "crud" to that in "crude", one must add another "d" when creating this word: "crudders" - kind of like "udders", but with a "c" in front.   (Do sea cows have udders?  If so, we could call them c-udders. )

+1 👍 (I love playing with a language! Unfortunately, me is unable to play in English with the big boys and girls)

[Claes]

Yes, @LizEF is udderly correct....

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, InesF said:

+1 👍 (I love playing with a language! Unfortunately, me is unable to play in English with the big boys and girls)

Me is unable to play with German at all, even with infants...

 

4 hours ago, Claes said:

Yes, @LizEF is udderly correct....

Perfect!

[PBWilson1970]

I've been dealing with nib crud in only a couple of the 40+ inks I've used. One is Diamine Ancient Copper and the other is an orange Diamine called Sunset. 

 

I really like both of these inks. I guess I'll be a bit more diligent in cleaning the pens I use with them. Thanks for verifying my experiences.