Distinguishing Parker 51 England vs USA

[aurore]

Is there any way, if we don't count cap and can't see the engravings to the nib, how to identify an English MkI Parker, if there is no engraving to the barrel left? 

Some U.S. made P51 had metal tubes (pressure bar) with "Made in USA" on them, while the others did not, so the lack of "Made in USA" didn't necessarily mean it was an English pen. And I am not aware of any other clue...

[Paul-in-SF]

Are you talking about Aerometric fillers?

 

(I wasn't aware they were ever called MkI, because 1st generation P51s were Vacumatic fillers, but there are lots of things I don't know). 

 

I have a copy of the Parker-published book on P51s, so I will look through it and see if it has anything about your question. It may not be the best reference around, but what information it does have should be correct. 

 

Also, there are some good online resources. Here are a couple of them:  http://parkercollector.com/parker51.html and http://www.richardspens.com/ref/profiles/51.htm

 

edited to add: what color is the body? That might also make a difference.

 

[Paul-in-SF]

I have been through my book, and all it has to say about the first generation Aerometric P51s from England is the limited range of four colors: black, British "bloody" burgundy (lighter and redder than the American hue), teal blue, and grey (the book doesn't specify, but I think this must be Navy Grey, since Dove Grey was only used on Vacumatic models). There are also differences in metal pens (gold and silver), and they don't appear to have made a Flighter model, at least it is not mentioned. The book does not mention any differences in construction, such as in the sac protector or the breather tube.

 

If the pen you are looking at is black, teal blue or navy grey, my conclusion (based on the book's information) would be that without the cap and without any barrel markings, you would not be able to determine whether the pen was British or US made. If the pen is British "bloody" burgundy, you can confirm that it is British made. If it is any of the other colors, you can confirm that it is US made. 

[joss]

I thought that all P51 pens that were made in the USA were marked as such on the Aerometric filling unit, except perhaps some of the ultimate versions from the late 1960s-early 1970s (especially the P51 desk pens come to my mind). So if the barrel has a breather hole in the top (which means <1960) and the Aerometric filler does not mention the country of manufacture, then I file that P51 pen as being made in England. I do not have a Canadian P51 Aerometric, and I do not know if they were marked "Made in Canada" on the Aerometric filler.

[FarmBoy]

One could look at the nib imprint though nibs can be changed over time. 

[thx1138]

The geometry and tipping size of the nib (without stripping the pen down to see the nib stampings) Also give a clue to the factory of origin.

 

If the nib is a uk medium or bigger, i don't think Janesville ever made nibs that big. Even US nibs marked as broad write as medium at best (to me). The US nibs seem to run at least a full size smaller than the UK nibs. I can't speak to the extension of this theory to fine or extra fine nibs as I would never buy one of these of my own volition. 

 

Also, but not definitive, is that the UK medium and larger nibs are often back-ground on the top of the tipping. I don't know the correct term for this but the upper surface of the tipping is ground flat. It will still write smoothly using the back.

 

I also see this back grinding feature on French nibs by Parker, especially broad or larger nib grades.