Brain fade, and a stuck screw on section in a cap :) - Help!

[Cursive Child]

I bought a wood and copper pen at the DC pen show on impulse - made by Stex from India. Writes well, except that the ink was drying up in the capped pen, crud developing on the nib, and wasn't starting until rinsed. Diamine Ancient Copper - which I love in other pens. Going to use a different ink when and if I recover. So instead of waiting for the ink to get used up, and reading threads that the seal in the pen cap might not be tight, I tried to be too smart for my own good, and wrapped some paper around the threads in the section to see what a tight fit would do.

 

The pen body unscrews instead of the section 😢 now. I must have screwed it on so tight that the paper is stuck in the threads and now the torque to unscrew it isn't there, the pen body comes off before the section.

I read other threads and have tried the following:

- hot water : it's a rosewood pen and unvarnished, so can't leave it soaked. I poured some into the cap and drained it. 

- put some school glue on the inner threads in the pen body which are supposed to screw on the grip section. No use. scared of using something permanent or stronger.

 

What can I do? I don't want to apply any more brute thinking. Or any of my own thinking at all 

 

Are there tools I can find at say a watchmaker which might help? Something thin but soft to not damage the copper, yet provide enough purchase to turn the section? Plastic nose needle pliers?

Lubricant in copper threads? will make everything more slippery. Also might damage the material. 

 

Thank you in advance for suggestions and sympathy.

[yaju]

You might be able to wrap some sort of string around the section's threads to pull it out.

[Cursive Child]

1 hour ago, yaju said:

You might be able to wrap some sort of string around the section's threads to pull it out.

It's a screw in section. Can't pull

[mhguda]

So do I understand correctly that the section is now screwed into the cap so tightly that you cannot screw it out, due to the paper you wrapped around the threads. Instead, the barrel screws off, and the section stays inside the cap.

Can you get the finial off the cap and access the section from the top?

The other thing I'd try is if you could get some lubricant to somehow penetrate between those threads, and then, with the barrel probably screwed on again, try to get it loose... Soaking might not be the best idea either, the wood will soak up some water and maybe make the bind ever stronger.

Good luck, I'm really curious how you will get it out again...

[ralfstc]

Is the section wood or brass?

 

You are dealing with two joints:

 

1. Cap to section (with the paper stuck in)

2. Body to section

 

In those 2 joints there are 4 actual threads, which could be made of different materials. We can see the male component of the body to section threads are metal. What is the female?

 

And what are the other two threads?

 

R.

[Cursive Child]

The section and all threads are copper.

The cap is made of a piece of hollowed out wood and don't think the finial comes off at all.

 

If lubricant, what would I use that wouldn't harm the wood or brass? 

 

The other thing I was thinking of trying was to put some strong glue in the innner threads in the body, glue it to the section by slowly screwing in, and after curing, unscrew the pen out. I don't know what would be material that will not harm the brass and wood, and can be taken off afterwards?

 

 

This is a before picture with the crud problem I was trying to solve.

 

[mhguda]

lubricant: I'd think our go-to for pens: silicone grease. Only problem would be how to get it on the threads now...

Once I bought a Chinese eyedropper-filled pen and it came with a sort of plastic syringe filled with silicone grease, something like that would enable you to bring small drops into a small space. However, with the threads already engaged, I don't know...

I'm not sure what WD40 would do to the wood, but that would be something that, as a last resort, you might consider. It's safe on the brass, AFAIK; I use it regularly on brass locks.

As to your idea of gluing the barrel in, how would you ever get it to separate after that? and would the glue be in contact with the wood? that might cause damage when you try to unglue.

[Ron Z]

Take your time and think about this before you do anything.  Any kind of lubricant could get into the feed, which wouldn't be good.  

 

Dealing with stuck parts like this is always difficult because it's hard to get a grip on the stuck pieces to unscrew them without damaging something.  Sometimes a pair of tweezers can work as a spanner.  I would use something like an inner cap puller to grip the inside of the section to turn it.  

[Mercian]

Well, you can’t use any solvent that might dissolve paper, because it would presumably also dissolve the wooden components in the body/cap of the pen.

 

And, if the threads are all copper (or brass), then trying to use any kind of gripping tool as a stand-in for small pliers might crush/bend the metal threads.
 

So, might it be a good idea to apply a small amount of shellac to the body threads, then screw the body back into the grip-section and wait for the shellac to set, in order to glue the body into the section?

I know that shellac binds/sticks to plastics, but does it bind/stick to brass? 🤷‍♂️ 
 

Once the shellac has dried/cured, you might then be able to unscrew the grip-section from the cap.
[Well, as long as the adhesion provided by the shellac is greater than that provided by the crushed (& wetted-by-ink?) paper between the cap-threads & grip-section.]

 

Shellac can be re-softened with heat - e.g. with water at about 70-80 degrees Centigrade, or with careful use of a hairdryer.

 

Or would this idea not be of any use?
E.g. might heating the pen with water damage its wooden components? 🤷‍♂️

 

I am now tagging @Ron Z, in the hope that he can add some comments about shellac that he knows to be true from actual experience, instead of my own suggestion, which is merely an uninformed total guess.

 

I wish you the best of luck with your pen, and I urge you to wait for a reply from someone who knows what he is talking about before you decide to attempt to pursue my wild idea!

 

Slàinte,
M.

[Ron Z]

Tough question to answer.  Shellac has a way of going where you don't want it to go, and when set can sometimes be tough to get apart.  If it goes where it shouldn't, you might not be able to get the parts apart again.   But it's an idea.  The other problem is that if it does set and you use dry heat (again, I wouldn't consider using hot water) the heat could soften the adhesive that is holding the parts together.  It's possible to soften epoxy with surprisingly little heat.  The other reason for not using hot water is that the wood could absorb some,  and hot water may very well damage the finish applied to the wood, if nothing else causing it to turn cloudy.

 

The tools that I use to hold the inner caps of a 51 or a 75 have a tapered edge with ridges cut in it which might fit in the end of one or the other, and could grip the inside of the section to try to turn it.  I have a couple other ides, but want to suggest that a DIY person try them - there is risk with the processes.  We don't know what the mechanical skills of the OP are.

[I-am-not-really-here]

I would try ring clamp pliers.

[Ron Z]

There isn't enough clearance for them to reach down into the cap.

[I-am-not-really-here]

No, not the cap.  Grip, pressing against, the inner side of the section.  Then turn the cap.

 

It might be that the tape has created a crossed-thread situation.

[ralfstc]

How easily did the cap screw on with the paper in place? I'm just interested in getting a sense of the torque we have to apply here. Was it easy, or a full arm grunt sort of experience?

[Cursive Child]

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions.

 

The cap screwed on easily, but I did apply some torque for the last bit, nowhere near full arm grunt.

 

I do seem to have about a 1/4 in inner diameter of the section to work with, so if the ring clamp pliers can grip that from the inside, without damaging the copper, this may work. What I see in pics have a metal tip, so will that generate enough friction with the copper?

[I-am-not-really-here]

5 hours ago, Cursive Child said:

Thanks everyone for the helpful suggestions.

 

The cap screwed on easily, but I did apply some torque for the last bit, nowhere near full arm grunt.

 

I do seem to have about a 1/4 in inner diameter of the section to work with, so if the ring clamp pliers can grip that from the inside, without damaging the copper, this may work. What I see in pics have a metal tip, so will that generate enough friction with the copper?

A bit of rubber tubing in between wouldn't hurt.  Friction is bad, that's slippage.  You need grip.  Reverse action pliers recommended.

[ralfstc]

So, I think I'd try a sort of combination of methods here. I've had a lot of luck in the past with tapered wood rods as a way to grip the inside diameter of things needing unscrewed. It's usually not too hard simply to wrap piece of inner tube around the taper before pushing it in. It takes quite a lot of pressure to distort threads, especially if the pressure is equally distributed, so you can push the wooden rod quite hard into the piece to be unscrewed to generate grip. You can even use vise grips or something to turn the end of the wood. The torque should be more than you can generate with your fingers, so hopefully it will unscrew. I'd avoid metal on the copper.You can even use vise grips or something to turn the end of the wood. Copper is not that hard, and it's awfully easy to create a localised pressure point that creates a dimple in your metal-- and then your section is junk because it will be right on the threads . . . .

 

Apologies for the EXTREMELY dodgy looking diagram . . .

 

Good luck!

 

Ralf

 

 

[ralfstc]

An alternative would be an expanding puller, though it's a very small size. Worth taking it into a model shop if there's one near you and asking if they have anything . . . they can do most things, I find!

[Armo]

Have you considered replacing the barrel using thread lock and then trying to disassemble?

Lots of makes available this one being typical.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-EVBTHRED10-Threadlock-10-g/dp/B0012RCYAO?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AWC7QOTN9MF9I

[Misfit]

I don’t know if this will help. Get rubber bands and put them where needed to get a better grip. TWSBI answered an email when I was having a problem, and this was their suggestion. 
 

You have my sympathy for your situation.