Pelikan M800 - Pilot CH 91 - Sailor Progear - Which one?

[HknGrss]

Hello everyone.

I want to buy a new fountain pen, but I'm stuck between a few pens. I would be very grateful if you can give me ideas.
The pens I'm in between:
Pelikan M800
Pilot Heritage 91
Sailor Progear

 

I expect the pen to write smoothly. I don't want a light pen, a little heavy would be nice. I don't want a small pen, it should be medium or large. I use EF or F nibs, I don't like thick writing (in this case, you can also recommend a nib with the pen).

I own a Lamy 2000 and a Parker 51. Both of them have a hidden nib, I don't want my new pen to have a hidden nib. If possible, it would be nice if it has a Gold nib. But I can also buy a steel nib with soft writing (according to your recommendations).

In this case, which of these pens would you recommend?

 

Thank you in advance for your advice.

Edited June 18, 2024 by HknGrss

[Merrick]

The M800 will be bigger and heavier than either the Pilot or Sailor, but it will write thicker, even the EF. The Pilot and Sailor EFs will have a thinner line width than the Pelikan, but are smaller and lighter. The Pro Gear is the smallest, the flat finials really reduce the size. I no longer have a CH92 but I believe it is thinner in the grip than the Pro Gear and being a piston filler it should be heavier. 
 

I think the Pro Gear would not be a good choice based on your stated preferences. I can’t even use mine unposted because it’s too short (and mine is a full size Pro Gear, not a slim). The 1911L would be a better choice if you’re determined to get a Sailor. 
 

At that point it depends on what matters more. If size and weight are most important, the M800 is the better choice. If the finest possible line width is the most important, then the Pilot is the way to go. 

[arcfide]

I agree with the above for the most part. If you care about balance and weight of the pen, then the M800 is the way to go, and you are likely to get the smoothest feel from the Pelikan as well, at the cost of a wetter, fatter writing EF nib. 

 

Sailor doesn't sound like you're cup of tea, as they tend to be smaller and lighter compared to their counterparts, and they also tend to have more feedback compared to Pilot or Pelikan. 

 

If you really want a very smooth nib and weight, then the Pelikan would be my recommendation. If you absolutely need a more controlled line and a more narrow one, then the PIlot or Sailor is the way to go, especially if you can put up with the lighter weight. Given that you like smoothness, I'd expect the Pilot to have the slight edge over Sailor for you. 

[Merrick]

An even better option would be the Pilot Custom 743 or 823 as they are both larger than the CH92 but retain the fine line widths in the nib. The 823 will be heavier because it’s a vac filler. 

[Karmachanic]

M800/5 EF AND a Pro Gear F.    But not necessarily at the same time.  Look on *bay for the Pro Gear at a better price from Japan.  Sailor nibs have feedback.

[HknGrss]

I just came across Parker Duofold while doing research and I liked it very much. Which one do you recommend when you add Parker Duofold to the list?

[Merrick]

I haven't used a Duofold specifically but usually American nibs, even vintage ones, are more in line with European nib sizes than Japanese. Is your priority the weight of the pin or the thinness of the line? If it's the thinness of the line you should go with a Pilot. If it's the weight/size of the pen then just pull up the weights and lengths of the pens you're interested in on retailer sites.

[A Smug Dill]

Welcome to FPN.

 

2 hours ago, HknGrss said:

Pelikan M800
Pilot Heritage 91
Sailor Progear

…‹snip›…

In this case, which of these pens would you recommend?

 

None of them, in the face of other more suitable candidates.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I have two Pilot Custom Heritage 91 and four Sailor (full-sized) Professional Gear fountain pens here, so it isn't that I dislike them. I also have a Pelikan Souverän M815, which is a heavier version of the M800; I don't like it as much, because its nib just doesn't write finely enough for me.

 

You obviously prefer pen bodies with flat ends, as opposed to cigar-shaped and torpedo-shaped pens. So I'd suggest a Diplomat Excellence A, Excellence A+, or Excellence A2, which can be ordered with either a steel nib or a gold nib. I have four of them (but no A+, which has a screw-cap instead of a snap-cap). You'll probably find its size and heft more satisfying in the hand; and Diplomat's steel nibs have a very good reputation. I know its EF nibs write very finely; on the pens I have, the steel EF nibs write more finely than the one gold EF nib, without being scratchy (if you don't press down into the page, and do note it's a metal-bodied pen, so you'll need to compensate for that with your pen hold).

[Beechwood]

25 minutes ago, HknGrss said:

I just came across Parker Duofold while doing research and I liked it very much. Which one do you recommend when you add Parker Duofold to the list?

 

 

I wouldn't give the Duofold house room personally.

 

Many old  time pen experts rate the Pelikan 800 as the best pen of its type  that you can buy  and with first class after sales service from Pelikan.

 

I have owned a black 800 with a broad nib for over 20 years, it would be a good partner to your 51, quite, quite different but still a good pairing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[senzen]

At the M800's price you could buy three 91s or Pro Gears. I enjoy my 13 Pelikans (including M605, 400 but no 800) but the writing difference, if any, won't be 3 times better.

 

The 91 will give you extremely smooth nibs, and the chance to try some specialty "soft" nibs; stepping up to the 912 would give you even more nib options, still at half the M800's price; my one 912 WA is a very nice pen to use. The only con is the con-40 converter which doesn't hold much, my one new con-70 failed.

 

Sailors are by design less smooth but never rough. For the price of an M800 I got a new 1911 "Black Luster" (don't be put off by the weird names), and a used special edition Midnight Sky Pro Gear: really good looking pens and a joy to use. Also small capacity converters, which has never been an issue for me.

 

Taking into account personal preferences, it's unlikely you could go wrong with any of these. I should say my 91's SFM nib doesn't do much for me, too much shading and writing with a very light hand it sometimes skips; but it could be great for others precisely because of this (those that press on their nibs for instance).

 

If you want a big, heavier pen, there's the Diplomat Excellence; which does seem to dry out more quickly; and for a spectacular design there's the Waterman Carène.

 

[HknGrss]

Some questions in my head have been answered, thank you everyone.
I am currently torn between Pelikan M800 and Pilot Heritage 91.
Diplomat Excellenge A / A2 /A+ is also nice, but unfortunately the tip and colour options are very limited in my region.

I haven't even looked at Pilot 823, because I don't want a transparent pen.

I will decide and order in the next few days. In the meantime, I will continue to research. I am still open to new and different recommendations

[Lithium466]

10 minutes ago, HknGrss said:

Some questions in my head have been answered, thank you everyone.
I am currently torn between Pelikan M800 and Pilot Heritage 91.

Skip the 91 and go 912 with a SF nib if you want a Pilot and flat top...or a Custom 845.

Otherwise the M800 isn't punching in the same category.

[HknGrss]

Actually, I don't necessarily need it to be flat. I may have liked these models by chance. Otherwise, I am also very interested in pens with rounded edges. For me, not being light, offering a soft writing, not being too small and not being transparent are the biggest factors right now.
By the way, I don't have big hands, the Parker 51 and Lamy 2000 I already own are small-medium pens. But I would like to add a large pen to my collection.

In addition, I don't really like the nib of the 823, a more classic nib would be better for me. 
845 is also a very nice pen, but it is a bit above my budget.

Edited June 18, 2024 by HknGrss

[Lithium466]

I would suggest a Pilot Custom 743...but they have the same nibs as the 823 (which is also the same nib size and form factor as the 845).
Pilot is offering 15 different nibs on the 743, from the most classic EF/F/FM/M... to some fancier "Signature" or FA, or PO if you like fine lines. The soft variants SF/SFM/SM are a touch softer than the equivalent F or M, not really in term of tines split but just general softness/bounciness.

 

All that said it really sounds to me that the M800 in one of the zillion variants would fit the bill.

Or if you want something Japanese, there's always the Platinum President that can still be found. It's very...old school, but also much cheaper than the M800. Be warned though, read several reviews of the President, the nib is stiff and the pen is just business, nothing fancy.

 

Or the Sailor 1911 King of Pen. Medium is the thinnest nib grind, but it won't be far from the Pelikan in EF.

[Mercian]

Hi @HknGrss, and welcome to FPN 😊

 

If you want to get a large piston-fill pen that has some heft, and a nib that is ‘springy’ or ‘soft’ (-ish), I would recommend that you get a Pelikan M800, BUT:

 

You will need to try to find one of the earlier, ‘W.-Germany’ ones, or an M800 whose 18k gold nib has the ‘PF’ or ‘EN’ customs-stamps on its nib.
I have previously seen people on FPN say that, if you can find an M800 with one of the earliest (1987-1990) 14k gold nibs on it, those are ‘softer’ than the 18k nibs are.
My own ‘W.-Germany’ M800 has an 18k nib that has a ‘PF’ stamp on it, so my pen dates from 1990-1991.
M800 pens stamped ‘Germany’ were made with ‘EN’ or ‘PF’ nibs from 1991-1997.

 

Modern Pelikan M80x nibs are ground rather wide, but it’s also true that they are ground wider than were the nibs on the Pelikan M800 pens from the ‘W.-Germany’ days (1987-1991), and possibly than all the pre-1997 nibs.
E.g. the ‘M’ nib on my ‘W.-Germany’ M800 is similar in width to the ‘F’ nib on my 2020 M805, so a ‘W.-Germany’ M800 with an ‘F’ nib on it might suit you.

But, if you prefer narrower lines, you may prefer to buy a pre-1997 M800 that has an ‘EF’ nib, rather than a ‘F’.

 

In terms of weight:

• the Parker “51” is around 20g
• the Lamy 2000 is around 26g
• the Pelikan M800 is around 29g.

 

If you would prefer a heavier pen, the Diplomat Excellence models recommended by A Smug Dill are roughly 47g in weight.
They’re approximately the same size as a Pelikan M80x. Their greater weight is because their bodies are made of metal, rather than plastic.

They are c/c pens, and they take European ‘Standard International’ cartridges or converters. They are available in various colours, with yellow-gold trim, or with ‘silver’-coloured trim.
They are available with nibs made from steel, or nibs made from gold.

I have seen several reviews in which people are very complimentary about Diplomat’s steel nibs - so much so that they say that they’re as good as the gold nibs are, so you could choose between steel or gold based solely on how ‘pretty’ you think each nib is.
I have never seen anyone complain about the nib on a Diplomat pen.

 

I strongly advise you to read/watch several reviews of each type of pen that you are considering.
Different reviewers notice/highlight different things about the pens, and they each have their own personal preferences. Reading/watching several reviews before buying gives you a greater chance of being alerted to anything that you might consider to be a ‘deal-breaker’ for you.

 

Slàinte,
M.

[Cjtamu]

You’ve been provided with a lot of good information. I own the majority of the pens listed here and you know what? I like them all, all of them are excellent writers. And that includes two steel nibbed Diplomats that write marvelously. I obviously have some I prefer to others but that’s just what it is, preference. No one else can tell you which you’ll like best. Take the information and make an informed decision. If you’re buying from someplace that offers a tune before sending that’s something to consider. A little touch up by someone who knows what they’re doing can make a difference.

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, HknGrss said:

Diplomat Excellenge A / A2 /A+ is also nice, but unfortunately the tip and colour options are very limited in my region.

 

Diplomat in Germany ships internationally if you order from it as a retail customer directly by way of its web site. I bought a Diplomat Aero from it that way, at a discounted price and with ‘free’ international shipping to Australia no less, and it worked out fine even though the company's order handling processes are not quite as polished as most online retailers'.

[Lam1]

The M800 is head and shoulders above the other two, and much closer to your requirements.

it will write thicker than the pilot and sailor, but if you have a Lamy 2k, it should be similar. If you get an EF and use a dry (Pelikan or edelstein) ink, it should be plenty fine and you have a pen for your lifetime (full disclosure, I have 20+ M800).

 

if it is not fine enough, you can send the nib to a nibmeister and have it writing exactly as you would like, which is the best thing one can do with any pen (I recommend Mike Masuyama).

 

Whatever you do, don’t buy a modern Parker, unless you have too boring a life and want to add some trouble 🤣.

[arcfide]

Given that you're emphasizing the weight, I think you should pay careful attention to that in your ordering. A lot of pens from Japanese makers that seem "large" are deceptively light. 

 

Given that, I have to increase my recommendation for larger Pelikans, but also Diplomat, Lamy, and maybe Visconti, Aurora, Scribo, or Santini. Diplomat makes excellent, heavy pens, and I have their Nexxus pen, which is *very* heavy and quite good. Lamy's Imporium is surprisingly good in person. A colleague of mine picked one up, and I have to admit that as soon as I held it in hand, I wanted one. It is larger, hefty, and feels very nice in the hand. The gold nib is very distinctive, and Lamy's gold nibs have a soft writing feel. Aurora's pens are a little skinnier, but they tend to make heavier pens. Scribo and Santini both make large, heavier-ish pens, and are reasonably priced, as well as offering good fine nibs, but you should be aware that Santini nibs are developing a reputation for coming mis-aligned or badly tuned out of the box. 

 

Visconti's Homo Sapiens series is another one you should look at, again with the caveat that you may or may not like the tuning out of the box, so be ready to adjust it. Those pens are large, heavy, and have a reasonable reputation. 

 

 

[HknGrss]

Thank you very much for all the suggestions and ideas.
Right now, as I do research, I keep seeing new pens and getting excited.
For example, I saw the M800 Burnt Orange Special Edition, but it's twice the price of the classic version. I can't help myself, I want to buy it, but after paying that much, I can also buy Visconti Homo Sapiens or Pilot Custom 845 Urushi.
I'm in a battle with myself: should I go easy on my budget and buy, for example, a classic M800, or should I push the envelope and buy a Homo Sapiens, 845 or M800 Burnt Orange?

I realize that I have to decide at this point, this part was a bit like a bit of trouble