EFNIR: Herbin Violette Pensée

[LizEF]

12 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Ah, you’re too quick for me!
I chose to edit my post to switch from Russian to French, presuming that other users would be more-likely to understand the sentiment in French than in Russian.

 

13 minutes ago, Mercian said:

I think that the idiomatic response would be ‘pas de problème’, but then I haven’t been to France for over thirty years now! 
I really must ‘pull my finger out’ in this matter. I mean, I’ve never even visited Paris (not that this summer is any kind of ‘good’ time to do that)! And it’s hardly as though France is ‘the other side of the world’ from England, is it? 

Yes, this is the problem with translate.google.com - it can do literal translations, but it can't know when you're translating the idiomatic meaning rather than the real meaning of the words.  The Russian translation for "don't think anything of it" didn't mean the same thing as in English, so I just went with the simple, hyper-casual response of "nothing" - which roughly equates to the English "It's nothing."

 

12 minutes ago, Mercian said:

My laziness makes me a fool to myself!

  Welcome to the club!

[LizEF]

4 minutes ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

I just woke from mine.  😴

  Good morning!  Welcome to cat-life. 

[Sailor Kenshin]

Nan de mo nai.  😸

[Mercian]

4 hours ago, LizEF said:

Some folk claim that those who take a nap during the day are less likely to have a heart attack (or something like that).  Heaven knows if that's just coincidence or if there's some causation there, but it helps me feel less guilty about my afternoon naps...

It should be a Truth Universally Acknowledged that the Secret of Happiness is the freedom to have an Afternoon Nap!

 

If one looks at the habits of people in pre-industrial societies, one finds that napping and/or multiple bouts of sleep per day is actually a universal human trait.

It was only the advent of artificially-lit industrial production facilities that required us to try to cram all of our day’s required sleep into one solid ‘chunk’ of ~8 hours!

I used to (especially in the Winter) fall asleep for a couple of hours after getting home from work, then wake up, eat fairly late, and be unable to fall asleep until about 0300. I used to ‘beat myself up’ about it, until…

 

…I saw a documentary TV segment (or heard one on the radio) about the insights that historians had gleaned from diaries that had been kept by ordinary people here in England in previous centuries.
These diaries revealed that, until surprisingly late in the Nineteenth century, it was common practice here for people to have a ‘first sleep’ upon their return home from work, and to then get up to make/eat their ‘evening’ meal at an hour that we would nowadays consider to be fairly late at night. People also did their household chores fairly late into the night, before returning to bed for a ‘second sleep’, then getting up in the morning to go to work.

 

Learning that has made me much more accepting of my body’s desire to sleep in a manner that suggests that I may have feline ancestry!

 

Anyway, I must now ask you to excuse me; I think that I may need to cough-up a hairball 

[Anne-Sophie]

On 6/11/2024 at 12:18 PM, LizEF said:

Wow, that's interesting.  I would have expected blue to be mandatory, not purple.

 

You are both right.

 

Purple was mandatory in public school, at the beginning of the 20th century, when students used dip pens and inkwells.

 

Erasable blue became mandatory with the arrival of the ink eraser and the affordable school fountain pen which used no-mess small cartridges.

 

Every year, at back to school time, I used to buy 1 or 2 big bags of generic small cartridges that fit all the supermarkets & small department stores fountain pens, also offered in bulk, in a pen cup.

 

Waterman offered metal school pens which worked with their long cartridges. Compared to the bulk packs, they were expensive, I had a pipette, from a science kit, which I reserved for cartridge refilling with erasable blue ink, from a Waterman bottle.

 

In 4th grade, I started with one fountain pen, by the time I was in University I had 4, 2 metal and 2 plastic.  May be more, lots of note taking.

 

 

 

[LizEF]

43 minutes ago, Mercian said:

It should be a Truth Universally Acknowledged that the Secret of Happiness is the freedom to have an Afternoon Nap!

 

If one looks at the habits of people in pre-industrial societies, one finds that napping and/or multiple bouts of sleep per day is actually a universal human trait.

It was only the advent of artificially-lit industrial production facilities that required us to try to cram all of our day’s required sleep into one solid ‘chunk’ of ~8 hours!

I used to (especially in the Winter) fall asleep for a couple of hours after getting home from work, then wake up, eat fairly late, and be unable to fall asleep until about 0300. I used to ‘beat myself up’ about it, until…

 

…I saw a documentary TV segment (or heard one on the radio) about the insights that historians had gleaned from diaries that had been kept by ordinary people here in England in previous centuries.
These diaries revealed that, until surprisingly late in the Nineteenth century, it was common practice here for people to have a ‘first sleep’ upon their return home from work, and to then get up to make/eat their ‘evening’ meal at an hour that we would nowadays consider to be fairly late at night. People also did their household chores fairly late into the night, before returning to bed for a ‘second sleep’, then getting up in the morning to go to work.

 

Learning that has made me much more accepting of my body’s desire to sleep in a manner that suggests that I may have feline ancestry!

Very interesting.  I have heard that there are a lot of health benefits to getting all your sleep at once, but these days, heaven knows what the truth is - so many people out there trying to sell something...

 

44 minutes ago, Mercian said:

Anyway, I must now ask you to excuse me; I think that I may need to cough-up a hairball 

  (Or at least spit some cat hair out of your mouth? )

[LizEF]

3 minutes ago, Anne-Sophie said:

You are both right.

 

Purple was mandatory in public school, at the beginning of the 20th century, when students used dip pens and inkwells.

 

Erasable blue became mandatory with the arrival of the ink eraser and the affordable school fountain pen which used no-mess small cartridges.

 

Every year, at back to school time, I used to buy 1 or 2 big bags of generic small cartridges that fit all the supermarkets & small department stores fountain pens, also offered in bulk, in a pen cup.

 

Waterman offered metal school pens which worked with their long cartridges. Compared to the bulk packs, they were expensive, I had a pipette, from a science kit, which I reserved for cartridge refilling with erasable blue ink, from a Waterman bottle.

 

In 4th grade, I started with one fountain pen, by the time I was in University I had 4, 2 metal and 2 plastic.  May be more, lots of note taking.

Thank you for a glimpse into the life of French school children!

[Anne-Sophie]

42 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Thank you for a glimpse into the life of French school children!

 

Thank you, so very much, for making those wonderful ink reviews! 

[LizEF]

Just now, Anne-Sophie said:

Thank you, so very much, for making those wonderful ink reviews! 

You're most welcome!

[arcfide]

To further clarify the situation with Herbin and school children ink, Herbin's page has two mentions of French students: 

 

Herbin Calligraphy Supplies | Fine Writing Ink, Calligraphy Pens, and Sealing Wax | Pen Ink Cartridges, Reed and Bamboo Pens (jherbin.com)

 

Specifically, they highlight Violet ink as a Napoleonic ink color for students because it was a very cheap ink to produce. They also point to their bleu myosotis as the closest color in their lineup to the standard French school blue. 

[LizEF]

5 minutes ago, arcfide said:

Specifically, they highlight Violet ink as a Napoleonic ink color for students because it was a very cheap ink to produce.

Quote

Since Napoleon I, French pupils used violet ink color, the least expensive color. This ink was made of methyl-violet, also used to disinfect wounds.

And hey, a student stabs himself with a dip nib, just pour some ink on the wound.   This is making more sense all the time.

[Lithium466]

2 hours ago, arcfide said:

To further clarify the situation with Herbin and school children ink, Herbin's page has two mentions of French students: 

 

Herbin Calligraphy Supplies | Fine Writing Ink, Calligraphy Pens, and Sealing Wax | Pen Ink Cartridges, Reed and Bamboo Pens (jherbin.com)

 

Specifically, they highlight Violet ink as a Napoleonic ink color for students because it was a very cheap ink to produce. They also point to their bleu myosotis as the closest color in their lineup to the standard French school blue. 

They are careful in their description, saying that purple was the ink used in schools (used but not mandatory, same as erasable blue was used and recommended but not mandatory?), but not specifically "Violette pensée".

Also they mention Bleu myosotis being "close" to standard erasable school blue, as indeed bleu myosotis isn't completely eradicable.

(I'm surprised to see they put Bleu nuit as their darkest after Perle noire, maybe that was written before they came up with Bleu des profondeurs...or that's just a saturation matter)

[arcfide]

40 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

(I'm surprised to see they put Bleu nuit as their darkest after Perle noire, maybe that was written before they came up with Bleu des profondeurs...or that's just a saturation matter)

 

I'm fairly certain that it was written prior to the introduction of Bleu des profundeurs. 

[arcfide]

40 minutes ago, Lithium466 said:

They are careful in their description, saying that purple was the ink used in schools (used but not mandatory, same as erasable blue was used and recommended but not mandatory?), but not specifically "Violette pensée".

 

Yes, I think they are careful, and rightfully so. There's a lot of mystique around Herbin's history and their inks, so it pays to be a little careful here. 

[Anne-Sophie]

2 hours ago, Lithium466 said:

They are careful in their description, saying that purple was the ink used in schools (used but not mandatory, same as erasable blue was used and recommended but not mandatory?), but not specifically "Violette pensée".

Also they mention Bleu myosotis being "close" to standard erasable school blue, as indeed bleu myosotis isn't completely eradicable.

(I'm surprised to see they put Bleu nuit as their darkest after Perle noire, maybe that was written before they came up with Bleu des profondeurs...or that's just a saturation matter)

 

A French company would, understandably, soften the harsh reality of French school children, who had no rights and were very often treated harshly.

 

The experiences of my family members as well as my own can testify to that, either from public school, zealot teachers or, by the nuns, in private ones.

 

In the latter, it was mandatory for my classmates and myself to use yellow Bic ball-points in first grade.  

After playing with my ancestors dip pens, and using my family members pencils then mine. I detested that writing instrument that gave me tremendous hand pains.

In second or third grade, I found a wide multicolor novelty ballpoint, took it to class where the nun teacher almost confiscated it. I had to do some fast thinking and took it back home at lunch time, it was comfortable to use for homework but didn't resolve my problem during the day.

 

We used 2 thin sewn Clairefontaine notebooks in Seyes ruling, one with a red the other with a blue plastic cover, both with a little slot, on the upper left, that housed a label with our first name. Both were kept at the school.

 

Because I loved back to school time and still, to this day, make a bee line for the stationery aisle, no matter how small, in every store I go.  

I bought more notebook covers, notebooks, especially the cheap ones, Seyes ruled but probably made with newspaper bond.

 

One day, I found the Bic 4 colors, bought one in orange and brought at school.

The same teacher nun threatened to confiscate it and said those are not regulation, I argued that being Bic, the ballpoint mark would be the same and the Swiss Baron would still get his money but, my hand would not hurt.

 

She let me use it, especially the blue color, underlining or using multicolor for phrases analysis would make noise, every time I changed color.

 

In 4th grade, the year we were allowed to use fountain pen, I used my 4 colors Bic ballpoint in Grammar classes to be rebellious.  My teacher had acted in a manner I considered, and to this day, consider improper toward two of my classmates.

I showed her that respect is earned, she was not a nun, I might not have dared.

 

 

 

   

[Anne-Sophie]

4 hours ago, arcfide said:

 

I'm fairly certain that it was written prior to the introduction of Bleu des profundeurs. 

 

It was, Bleu des Profondeurs is fairly recent.

 

I do love those cute kits with a lot of different writing instruments.

 

 

However, nothing beats Bo Bo Olson's Belle Époque tiny inkwell and dainty silver dip pen to place in a small desk with Clairefontaine Stationery set(s).

 

Cards of different sizes for invitations, up and down postcard size; double cards for more formal events,  menus, etc...

 

Correspondence paper, plain or ornate of different sizes with matching envelopes. 

[yazeh]

@Anne-Sophie thanks for sharing your experience and being a rebel.

[Anne-Sophie]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

@Anne-Sophie thanks for sharing your experience and being a rebel.

 

Yazeh, I also want to thank you for your tremendous ink reviews.

 

[Anne-Sophie]

10 hours ago, Mercian said:

Ah, you’re too quick for me!
I chose to edit my post to switch from Russian to French, presuming that other users would be more-likely to understand the sentiment in French than in Russian.

 

I think that the idiomatic response would be ‘pas de problème’, but then I haven’t been to France for over thirty years now! 
I really must ‘pull my finger out’ in this matter. I mean, I’ve never even visited Paris (not that this summer is any kind of ‘good’ time to do that)! And it’s hardly as though France is ‘the other side of the world’ from England, is it? 
My laziness makes me a fool to myself!

 

Mercian get into the train under the Channel  or hop into a ferry in late summer or early fall. Skip the popular tourist traps areas and choose one of the arrondissements (neighborhood) as your base.

 

Do visit museums, by setting up a reservation online, for the Louvre (choose your favorite historical era and take your time taking it all in) or choose the space that look the less crowded. You can eat there, so make a day out of it.

 

People, who love impressionism above all else, should choose the Musee d'Orsay, it is a former railway station, there might be food in situ, but neighborhood cafes are always a good bet for lunch and neighborhood restaurants for dinner, get used to dine around 7.

 

Breakfast or pique-nique at the Parc means a trip to the local bakery for croissants, but your hotel (small and family owned, if you don't mind narrow stairs) should have nice continental breakfast things available.

 

Baguette or any kind of bread plus a trip to the cheese and charcuterie or traiteur (which in addition has traditional French prepared salads) should set you up, for a great on the go meal, either for a visit to public park or a short trip to Versailles or Giverny.

 

Be aware that some places are uppity about outside food and won't let you in with it, so bring a small backpack to carry your goodies and keep the smelly stuff (cheese and food) at the hotel room.

 

France, now, get heat waves, so take a refillable bottle; wear a hat, light weight clothes and carry layers, including a waterproof wind breaker.

And most important, comfortable shoes.

 

Furthermore A/C is a novelty in Northern France, so bring a portable water sprayer fan.

 

Go visit!

  

 

 

[LizEF]

3 hours ago, Anne-Sophie said:

A French company would, understandably, soften the harsh reality of French school children, who had no rights and were very often treated harshly.

 

The experiences of my family members as well as my own can testify to that, either from public school, zealot teachers or, by the nuns, in private ones.

 

In the latter, it was mandatory for my classmates and myself to use yellow Bic ball-points in first grade.  

After playing with my ancestors dip pens, and using my family members pencils then mine. I detested that writing instrument that gave me tremendous hand pains.

In second or third grade, I found a wide multicolor novelty ballpoint, took it to class where the nun teacher almost confiscated it. I had to do some fast thinking and took it back home at lunch time, it was comfortable to use for homework but didn't resolve my problem during the day.

 

We used 2 thin sewn Clairefontaine notebooks in Seyes ruling, one with a red the other with a blue plastic cover, both with a little slot, on the upper left, that housed a label with our first name. Both were kept at the school.

 

Because I loved back to school time and still, to this day, make a bee line for the stationery aisle, no matter how small, in every store I go.  

I bought more notebook covers, notebooks, especially the cheap ones, Seyes ruled but probably made with newspaper bond.

 

One day, I found the Bic 4 colors, bought one in orange and brought at school.

The same teacher nun threatened to confiscate it and said those are not regulation, I argued that being Bic, the ballpoint mark would be the same and the Swiss Baron would still get his money but, my hand would not hurt.

 

She let me use it, especially the blue color, underlining or using multicolor for phrases analysis would make noise, every time I changed color.

 

In 4th grade, the year we were allowed to use fountain pen, I used my 4 colors Bic ballpoint in Grammar classes to be rebellious.  My teacher had acted in a manner I considered, and to this day, consider improper toward two of my classmates.

I showed her that respect is earned, she was not a nun, I might not have dared.

and Thanks for painting a verbal picture.  Sorry for the pointless pains.