Pelikan M800 14C vs 18C E|N nib

[vPro]

A few months back, I bought a very lightly used 1989-1990 Pelikan M800 W. Germany with a 'Medium' 18C E|N nib. 

 

It writes beautifully, has a sweet, springy (albeit a little 'blobby'/fat) medium nib and is a joy to write with.

 

The other day I came across a Pelikan M800 with a 14C 'Medium' nib. It was on auction, I placed a bid and forgot about it. To my surprise, I won the auction. It wasn't cheap, nor was it ridiculously expensive. 

 

Since winning the auction, I've tried to see if I could find a writing sample comparison between the two.

Some reputable people here on FPN grade the nibs' writing experience in the following order 14C > 18C E|N or PF > modern 18C (post 1997).

 

I couldn't find any writing sample portraying the difference.

 

I received the pen today and the nibs feel very similar. The 18C E|N nib is a tad wetter, but there's no discernable difference to me in softness between the 14C and 18C E|N.

 

Here's a writing sample. I have more thought about the pens themselves, but will keep that for when I've had the pens in hand for longer.

 

 

[chromantic]

What ink is that?

[vPro]

44 minutes ago, chromantic said:

What ink is that?

Robert Oster Gold Antiqua. Incredibly beautiful ink with lots of shading in a wet Pelikan nib!

[Bo Bo Olson]

I will compare 800's on this theme later in I'm off to bed.

It probably won't be  tomorrow.

However

7 hours ago, vPro said:

(albeit a little 'blobby'/fat) medium nib

I have had a old nib chart (pre-Japanese in the world market) , with Conway Stewart as the fattest by far, then Parker fatter than Shaffer. Then the 400 Pleikan**, and with it's very own narrower nib, the 800'ds stand alone nib width, and finally the narrow Waterman nibs. That should have been so until 1997.

 

** The double ball nib is fatter and blobbier than tear drop regular flex.

 

My W.Germany 800's nib is tear drop shaped. (Just remembered I have a '94 Hunter to check too.)

In you are calling your older 800 fat and blobby, do check to see if someone swapped nibs and you have a double ball one. ...In your calling that era 800's nib fat and blobby, shocked me. Ball on top like a K nib, and a ball under, no longer a tear drop tipping.

 

I have an '89-91  W.Germany 800 winch has the springy nib of the W.Germany pens...I have one or two W.Germany 200's, a small W.G. 600 and that 21st century 805.

 

That 600 is an OBB, which is half a width narrower than my after 2000 805 OBB.

IMO and from what I read, the double ball nibs are fatter and blobbier and don't write with a nice clean line.. But I only had two post '97 double ball blobby nib pens...and one has been made a stub. (I mainly buy old used semi-vintage and vintage pens.

I don't care for double ball tipping....but I buy old pens because they are cheap .... and have better nibs.

 

I'll have to dig the two 800's+915 out and see how springy the later 800 is...it did surprise me by not being the nail I expected...don't know if it off the top of my head,  is semi-nail or regular flex like the older W.Germany nibs.

 

The '82-97 were all regular flex, the W.Germany ones with the barest tad of more spring.  You do have to have a W.Germany and a pre'98 Germany tear drop nib to feel any difference. It is slight, but there.

 

I really don't feel any difference between W.Germany 18k and  steel 200's nib in spring and 'softness'.  Just like I don't feel any difference in my post '90-97 gold 400's. Celebry, & 381 and the steel 200's and steel Celebry.

 

IMO There is a gold is softer myth....

I think someone compared a steel nail with a gold semi-nail.

 

[chromantic]

6 hours ago, vPro said:

Robert Oster Gold Antiqua. Incredibly beautiful ink with lots of shading in a wet Pelikan nib!

 

I thought it looked familiar, I have Heart of Gold which LizEF says is basically Antiqua with glitter. Looks close the KWZ Honey, too.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Both my W.Germany 800 OM and my post 2000 805 OBB have 18k nibs.

 

The W.Germany is a nice springy regular flex of that W.Germany era........the post 2000, has good tine bend, and being so wide OBB, it looks like a 2 1/2 X tine spread ...

It did surprise me by being regular flexas an 800 but not as the 1000 I thought I won in a live auction.

Not being into oversized pens, I actually thought that 800 was the 1000 I won...It was a very big pen for me...then.

 

In I don't have much interest in big pens...It was listed in the live auction as a 1,000....so I accepted it as regular flex....Bock made 1000's were semi-flex. Pelikan's 1000's were regular flex.

Then I accidentally put it next to my 'new' W.Germany 800 and found out I now had two 800's instead of a 800 and 1000. My 915 Hunter Toledo is also a 800.

I'm not all that disappointed.

I find a 149 to be too large for my use....so a 1000 would be also.

[Mercian]

@vPro Thank you for this post/thread 👍

 

I got my first W.-Germany M800 at the end of last year.
Mine has an 18k ‘PF’ nib on it, which I love.
As you say of your nib, it is delightfully ‘wet’, and it also seems to me to be slightly more ‘bouncy’ than does my M805 nib from 2020.

 

My W.-Germany M800’s ‘M’ nib also has a slightly more interesting shape than does the very-round-tipped ‘F’ nib of my 2020 M805.
That said, my M800’s nib’s shaping is nowhere-near as emphatic as the shape of the springy, very crisp, ‘cursive-italic’ nib of my 1954 Pelikan 400, and nor is the nib as ‘bouncy’ as that on my 400.

 

I have been curious about the reputation for greater springiness of the early, 14k, M800 nibs, but your experience suggests that I needn’t worry about it too much.

 

Slàinte,
M.

[vPro]

16 hours ago, Mercian said:

@vPro Thank you for this post/thread 👍

 

I got my first W.-Germany M800 at the end of last year.
Mine has an 18k ‘PF’ nib on it, which I love.
As you say of your nib, it is delightfully ‘wet’, and it also seems to me to be slightly more ‘bouncy’ than does my M805 nib from 2020.

 

My W.-Germany M800’s ‘M’ nib also has a slightly more interesting shape than does the very-round-tipped ‘F’ nib of my 2020 M805.
That said, my M800’s nib’s shaping is nowhere-near as emphatic as the shape of the springy, very crisp, ‘cursive-italic’ nib of my 1954 Pelikan 400, and nor is the nib as ‘bouncy’ as that on my 400.

 

I have been curious about the reputation for greater springiness of the early, 14k, M800 nibs, but your experience suggests that I needn’t worry about it too much.

 

Slàinte,
M.

 

M,

Indeed, the nibs are slightly more bouncy/springy but no means flexible. 

 

Perhaps a little optimistic, but I was expecting 1950's Pelikan nib flexibility - especially because I have a first generation M600 with a single-tone 18K from the same era (1980s) that is wonderfully soft and flexible, bordering that of my vintage Pelikans.

 

My absolute favorite writer is my Pelikan 500 with an 'OBB' nib. That nib is otherworldly. I am usually a fan of finer nibs but the crisp shape of the nib gives a fine line on most regular cursive writing strokes and a broad line on the horizontal strokes. That nib truly enhances my handwriting!

 

If my nibs are representative in the slightest, there is *NO discernable difference*. I would be just as happy to keep either of the nibs.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

2 hours ago, vPro said:

Pelikan 500 with an 'OBB' nib. That nib is otherworldly. I am usually a fan of finer nibs but the crisp shape of the nib gives a fine line on most regular cursive writing strokes and a broad line on the horizontal strokes. That nib truly enhances my handwriting!

I eyeball my 500 as OBBB, in the normal marking place is hidden by the rolled gold piston cap. I have a couple OBB Osmia's and am using an BB Osmia right now...so eyeball  my 500 as wider.

Mine is a maxi-semi-flex, with a 30 degree grind....I have some 35 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex and of them 8-10... 30 degree grinds.I had a higher number in my head, but went conservative. Most of my obliques have a 15 degree grind.

Some times outside the 500, I thought in the time of the trained pen shop workers, back when every corner had a pen shop. The salesman would ask, would you like a bit more oblique and go in the back room and grind some....but all my 30 degree grinds are 30 degree, not 22 or so.

So I guess it was in the factory shop.

My 500 is a pure signature pen.