Gold nib vs steel nib

[lokesh4730]

What is the difference between a gold mobbed pen and a steel nibbed  pen(the same pen)when the gold nib also has no bounce or softness variation from the steel nib(ther than the aesthetics)

[Mercian]

I suspect that the gold nib vs. steel nib ‘value’/price question is a result of the early history of fountain pens.

 

All dip pen nibs that were/are made of steel and not tipped with hard-wearing rare-earth metals would/do wear out, because of friction with the pages on which one writes, and they would/do need to be re-sharpened, and eventually need to be replaced.
They were produced in their millions and, because they were a ‘consumable’ item, they could not be expensive to buy.
So, they were made of cheaper grades of steel, and they would e.g. be gradually dissolved by the iron-gall inks that were commonly used in their time. That was not an issue in itself, because friction would wear the nibs out anyway, usually before corrosion did, and in any case replacement nibs were of course not expensive.

 

When fountain pens (with internal reservoirs for ink) were introduced, they were far more expensive than were cheap dip-pen nibs. They therefore had to be seen to be a more-permanent purchase. As such, their nibs needed to last for far longer than did a cheap dip-pen nib.

So, they were tipped with pellets of hard-wearing rare-earth metals which would resist friction with paper for much longer than un-tipped steel dip-pen nibs, and they were often made from alloys of gold, because those would resist the corrosive effects of the acidic iron-gall inks.

 

Nowadays, the ready availability of corrosion-resistant stainless steels means that there is no reason why there should be any functional/performance difference between a stiff nib made from modern stainless steel, and a stiff nib made from an alloy of gold.

After all, neither the steel nor the gold is ever in contact with the paper. Only the nib’s tipping, which on steel nibs and on gold nibs is a pellet made from an alloy of rare-earth metals, is ever in contact with the paper.

 

That said…

 

Some gold alloys have a greater degree of ‘wettability’ than do some steel alloys, and so some gold nibs can write ‘wetter’ than some steel nibs do.

Also, gold nibs are perceived to have more cachet than steel nibs, and they are generally attached to more-expensive versions of the same model of pen. As such, some companies sometimes make more effort to ensure that their gold nibs ‘write well’ than they do with their steel nibs.

[lokesh4730]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:58 PM, Mercian said:

I suspect that the gold nib vs. steel nib ‘value’/price question is a result of the early history of fountain pens.

 

All dip pen nibs that were/are made of steel and not tipped with hard-wearing rare-earth metals would/do wear out, because of friction with the pages on which one writes, and they would/do need to be re-sharpened, and eventually need to be replaced.
They were produced in their millions and, because they were a ‘consumable’ item, they could not be expensive to buy.
So, they were made of cheaper grades of steel, and they would e.g. be gradually dissolved by the iron-gall inks that were commonly used in their time. That was not an issue in itself, because friction would wear the nibs out anyway, usually before corrosion did, and in any case replacement nibs were of course not expensive.

 

When fountain pens (with internal reservoirs for ink) were introduced, they were far more expensive than were cheap dip-pen nibs. They therefore had to be seen to be a more-permanent purchase. As such, their nibs needed to last for far longer than did a cheap dip-pen nib.

So, they were tipped with pellets of hard-wearing rare-earth metals which would resist friction with paper for much longer than un-tipped steel dip-pen nibs, and they were often made from alloys of gold, because those would resist the corrosive effects of the acidic iron-gall inks.

 

Nowadays, the ready availability of corrosion-resistant stainless steels means that there is no reason why there should be any functional/performance difference between a stiff nib made from modern stainless steel, and a stiff nib made from an alloy of gold.

After all, neither the steel nor the gold is ever in contact with the paper. Only the nib’s tipping, which on steel nibs and on gold nibs is a pellet made from an alloy of rare-earth metals, is ever in contact with the paper.

 

That said…

 

Some gold alloys have a greater degree of ‘wettability’ than do some steel alloys, and so some gold nibs can write ‘wetter’ than some steel nibs do.

Also, gold nibs are perceived to have more cachet than steel nibs, and they are generally attached to more-expensive versions of the same model of pen. As such, some companies sometimes make more effort to ensure that their gold nibs ‘write well’ than they do with their steel nibs.

That was a very informative reply. Thank you

[Karmachanic]

And then there's Titanium. 

[tonybelding]

On 4/15/2024 at 9:42 AM, Karmachanic said:

And then there's Titanium. 

I am a fan of titanium, and disappointed that these haven't caught on more widely.  However, I think the whole point of Ti is the flex.

[Karmachanic]

3 hours ago, tonybelding said:

I think the whole point of Ti is the flex.

 

Mine are all ground to CI, so I prefer to think of it as softness.  And then there's wetness!

[AAAndrew]

To the original question, the only difference of two stiff nibs is aesthetics. And cost. (gold is just more expensive than steel)

 

Mercian brings up the early history of fountain pens in the dip pen era. The first fountain pens used gold nibs because the steel nibs of the day would rust. It's pretty much that simple. The steel nibs of the day were actually made of the very finest grade of steel, Sheffield Cast Steel made from Swedish iron. Once Gillott, Mitchell and Mason figured out how to mass produce the nibs, then no one bothered to sharpen or mend their pens, they just threw them away. (and the steel pens would have rusted much faster than they could ever have worn down. It was the untipped gold pens that wore down before a good way of tipping them with a harder material was invented) They did make millions and millions of the steel pens, and sold them in boxes of a gross (144) because they were considered disposable items. 

 

Gold dip pens, on the other hand, which were made to be flexible or firm, depending on your taste, were made to last, and so cost many times more than a steel pen. A gross of steel pens might go for $0.75, but it wouldn't be at all surprising to pay $3.50 for a gold pen, and they could go for much more. (depending on size, holder, and if it was a special shape, like an oblique)

 

The early fountain pens also offered their gold nibs in varying degrees of stiffness. But they were all gold. It wasn't really until the 30s when stainless steel became more affordable and common, and the pen manufacturers started to compete in the lower tiers of the market (it was the depression, so a cheaper fountain pen was desirable now) that steel nibs started to become more common. These were stainless steel, because the better quality, high-carbon cast steel of the dip pens rust very easily if left in contact with ink. 

 

You can make gold pens and steel pens at different levels of stiffness, but to achieve the truly legendary flexibility of the old dip pens, you need that high-quality steel with a true spring and fast response that gold and stainless just can't match. There's a reason that the top calligraphers still use vintage dip pens for their best work, and the prices of the ones that are truly flexible with a super fine point continue to rise to crazy levels, as nothing created today can match the best of pre-1940 dip pens. 

 

 

[lokesh4730]

15 hours ago, AAAndrew said:

To the original question, the only difference of two stiff nibs is aesthetics. And cost. (gold is just more expensive than steel)

 

Mercian brings up the early history of fountain pens in the dip pen era. The first fountain pens used gold nibs because the steel nibs of the day would rust. It's pretty much that simple. The steel nibs of the day were actually made of the very finest grade of steel, Sheffield Cast Steel made from Swedish iron. Once Gillott, Mitchell and Mason figured out how to mass produce the nibs, then no one bothered to sharpen or mend their pens, they just threw them away. (and the steel pens would have rusted much faster than they could ever have worn down. It was the untipped gold pens that wore down before a good way of tipping them with a harder material was invented) They did make millions and millions of the steel pens, and sold them in boxes of a gross (144) because they were considered disposable items. 

 

Gold dip pens, on the other hand, which were made to be flexible or firm, depending on your taste, were made to last, and so cost many times more than a steel pen. A gross of steel pens might go for $0.75, but it wouldn't be at all surprising to pay $3.50 for a gold pen, and they could go for much more. (depending on size, holder, and if it was a special shape, like an oblique)

 

The early fountain pens also offered their gold nibs in varying degrees of stiffness. But they were all gold. It wasn't really until the 30s when stainless steel became more affordable and common, and the pen manufacturers started to compete in the lower tiers of the market (it was the depression, so a cheaper fountain pen was desirable now) that steel nibs started to become more common. These were stainless steel, because the better quality, high-carbon cast steel of the dip pens rust very easily if left in contact with ink. 

 

You can make gold pens and steel pens at different levels of stiffness, but to achieve the truly legendary flexibility of the old dip pens, you need that high-quality steel with a true spring and fast response that gold and stainless just can't match. There's a reason that the top calligraphers still use vintage dip pens for their best work, and the prices of the ones that are truly flexible with a super fine point continue to rise to crazy levels, as nothing created today can match the best of pre-1940 dip pens. 

 

 

Thank you

[Bo Bo Olson]

No where in the same flex level as a good dip pen....but for fountain pens, I've not run into better steel nibs than Osmia, which matched their grand gold nibs.

 

This is of course the semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex level. 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke.

 

For something you can lay hands on... '22-mid-late 50's Osmia and later Osmia-Faber-Castell Supra nibs are (mostly) Maxi-semi-flex nibs and the gold ones do match the steel ones....stainless steel as far as I can tell.

The Osmia nibs with a small diamond with the size number mostly in it are mostly semi-flex again where the gold does match the grand steel nib....

Those are those are real good nibs.

The Osmium compound they bought from a Heidelberg metallurgical professor in 1922 was one of the better tipping of all time...or at least in that time.

 

Had I then the 20-30% extra money above Pelikan level, I'd had an Osmia collection and not a Pelikan one. Geha was also made by Osmia/Degussa, So I do have a maxi-to go with once was 4 semi-flex 790's....Now three ,in I found out my lung doctor was a noobie fountain pen user....and sold a 790 semi=flex to him at a fair market price. Gives me something to talk to him when I visit.

When one has 35 semi-flex, giving up a good balanced Geha 790 don't hurt.

 

It could well be in I never got that book on nib geometry there are tiny bits of differences inthe nibs that I can't see with the steel nibs. Gold I guess is a slightly different alloy....could be the geometry...I don't look close enough...Grand is good enough for me. .

But I have maxi semi-flex nibs from MB, Pelikan, Geha....because Degussa who took over Osmia's nibf actory in 1932, made gold ribbon wheels for Osmia....my WOG it being either a bookkeeper decision or a lazy warehouse worker grabbing the first gold ribbon wheel he could find...was why MB, Sonnecken, Geha, and Pelikan have maxi-semi-flex nibs they never advertised...either they dint' catch on or  it wasn't worth changing the advertisements of their nibs.

Degussa was and is the main gold and silver producer in Germany.It was much cheaper to buy a gold or steel ribbon wheel, than taking a gold bar and making a ribbon in the nib making shop.

Degussa stopped making nibs in @ 2000.

 

[lokesh4730]

9 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

No where in the same flex level as a good dip pen....but for fountain pens, I've not run into better steel nibs than Osmia, which matched their grand gold nibs.

 

This is of course the semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex level. 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke.

 

For something you can lay hands on... '22-mid-late 50's Osmia and later Osmia-Faber-Castell Supra nibs are (mostly) Maxi-semi-flex nibs and the gold ones do match the steel ones....stainless steel as far as I can tell.

The Osmia nibs with a small diamond with the size number mostly in it are mostly semi-flex again where the gold does match the grand steel nib....

Those are those are real good nibs.

The Osmium compound they bought from a Heidelberg metallurgical professor in 1922 was one of the better tipping of all time...or at least in that time.

 

Had I then the 20-30% extra money above Pelikan level, I'd had an Osmia collection and not a Pelikan one. Geha was also made by Osmia/Degussa, So I do have a maxi-to go with once was 4 semi-flex 790's....Now three ,in I found out my lung doctor was a noobie fountain pen user....and sold a 790 semi=flex to him at a fair market price. Gives me something to talk to him when I visit.

When one has 35 semi-flex, giving up a good balanced Geha 790 don't hurt.

 

It could well be in I never got that book on nib geometry there are tiny bits of differences inthe nibs that I can't see with the steel nibs. Gold I guess is a slightly different alloy....could be the geometry...I don't look close enough...Grand is good enough for me. .

But I have maxi semi-flex nibs from MB, Pelikan, Geha....because Degussa who took over Osmia's nibf actory in 1932, made gold ribbon wheels for Osmia....my WOG it being either a bookkeeper decision or a lazy warehouse worker grabbing the first gold ribbon wheel he could find...was why MB, Sonnecken, Geha, and Pelikan have maxi-semi-flex nibs they never advertised...either they dint' catch on or  it wasn't worth changing the advertisements of their nibs.

Degussa was and is the main gold and silver producer in Germany.It was much cheaper to buy a gold or steel ribbon wheel, than taking a gold bar and making a ribbon in the nib making shop.

Degussa stopped making nibs in @ 2000.

 

That was very informative I didn’t know about that company itself

[Bo Bo Olson]

Faber-Castel a maker of second tier fountain pens, needed a first tier pen so bought up Osmia; who was allays in debt not having an office supply house like Sonenecken, MB, Pelikan or later Geha.,

And then having an ego problem immediately started erasing Osmia's cap jewel, clip, name onthe pen and name on the great nib...Bought up in @ 1950 erased before the end of 50 and Faber Castel died as a fountain pen by mid '60's if that long.

 

In I believe the German bosses chopped off the head of workers bold enough to show their pen was as good or better than the boss, Osmia had three-four finial jewels, and at least 4 clips, one pure genetic.

That is the only reason I can come up with that.

In the following pictures, I have them, and or occasionally I found a better picture than I can take of a pen I do have.

1938 The Boehler Brothers split up their Osmia factory....and Boehler continued using the same model numbers as Osmia. 

So on the whole when talking 30's Boehlers I consider them Osmia pens.

A mid '30s push button filler 222.

Click to get a better view...a mdl 76 I have a couple BCHR in 72 and 76 which is a medium-large pen, but the borrowed picture is better than I can take.

As I said, I don't know why the generic cap.

This pen I do not have...some 15 years ago, when I was struggling with thin air of €50 for a used pen, this went for €350. Osmia Supra Deluxe, and a hell of a 4 B signature nib.

This is the pen they chased and caught Soennecken and MB with.

Push button.....Soennecken, MB and Osmia and any of the rest did everything in the world than pay Pelikan to use it's piston.

This I have. An Osmia on one side Faber Castel on the other side...the next year on the same side and then erased...the pen that started my crazy addiction. A 540.

It was a steel maxi-semi-flex, when I didn't even know what semi-flex was....all the noobies were enthused by wide thick lines of ink...and this did that...having ease of tine spread...then died needing a new cork gasket....and It was until later I found out about semi-flex and maxi-semi-flex nib.

I was off to sell at my first flea market and we had a drawer full of old inherited fountain pens....I said, 1€ for the regular run of the mill old obliterate leaking things including the gray Esterbrook DJ and €5 for this one....Wife shook her finger and tasked me with looking it it. at 20:00 I started looking.

My in my wife's jewlery box jail, P-75 was then worth 3225...and this €5 Osmia was worth $250...So 02:00 I had a collection.

This is someone else's picture I use to show the Osmia brand mark finial top and the small diamond with the nib size inside the semi-flex nib.  This is a medium-small (very popular size in Germany) a 62...which I have in black and gold. Bohler

One day the big one just fell apart with crystalized rubber.

 

'38 Boehler 54 Gold...full tortoise....when I buy a pen, I get the picture for my use.

I do have some simple non chased black and gold Osmia pens also.

[AAAndrew]

Great info. Thanks @Bo Bo Olson. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thanks...

Often Osimia was 20-30% more than myPelikans and I had problems making the physiological jump to the even more expensive and relatively rare colored Osmia pens

 

I always had trouble with the concept of saving for later...later is a hateful word.