My first stub nibs

[RJS]

After many many years of fountain pen use, I finally decided to try stub nibs this week, and purchased two- a Pilot Prera 1mm and a Nahvalur 1.1mm- to try them out. I absolutely love the Prera nib and regret not buying a stub nib decades ago! Some of my favourite pens are those with a somewhat stubbish performance. 100% I could use the stub Prera as an every day pen.

 

The Nahvalur pen writes very nicely, but the line is rather thick for me, as my writing tends to be fairly small and I favour paper with narrow line spacing. The supposed difference between the two is 0.1mm, but the line variation is drastic, with the Nahvalur's line running fully twice as broad. Even eyeballing the two you can see a difference. It could be nice for envelopes, though, for example. Does anyone else own these two? Do they tend to run fine/broad like this? I ask to know whether to avoid other 1.1mm stubs and just by finer nibs in the future. Thanks!

 

[Karmachanic]

0.6 cursive italic works for me.

[dms525]

19 minutes ago, RJS said:

After many many years of fountain pen use, I finally decided to try stub nibs this week, and purchased two- a Pilot Prera 1mm and a Nahvalur 1.1mm- to try them out. I absolutely love the Prera nib and regret not buying a stub nib decades ago! Some of my favourite pens are those with a somewhat stubbish performance. 100% I could use the stub Prera as an every day pen.

 

The Nahvalur pen writes very nicely, but the line is rather thick for me, as my writing tends to be fairly small and I favour paper with narrow line spacing. The supposed difference between the two is 0.1mm, but the line variation is drastic, with the Nahvalur's line running fully twice as broad. Even eyeballing the two you can see a difference. It could be nice for envelopes, though, for example. Does anyone else own these two? Do they tend to run fine/broad like this? I ask to know whether to avoid other 1.1mm stubs and just by finer nibs in the future. Thanks!

 

Your experience of those two nibs is typical. Note that the assigned width of nibs (1.0, 1.1, etc.) is generally the physical width of the nib. How wide a line the nib writes is the way we actually experience a nib, and that is influenced by how wet the ink flow is, the ink used and the paper on which we are writing.

 

Moreover, some pen makers buy nibs from JoWo, for example, but tune them before shipping their pens. So, for example, I find the steel JoWo 1.1 stub nibs on Leonardo pens write crisper and narrower than, for example, the 1.1 nibs on Nahvalur pens. But JoWo's current steel 1.1 stub nibs are generally excellent, IMO.

 

David

[RJS]

1 hour ago, dms525 said:

Your experience of those two nibs is typical. Note that the assigned width of nibs (1.0, 1.1, etc.) is generally the physical width of the nib. How wide a line the nib writes is the way we actually experience a nib, and that is influenced by how wet the ink flow is, the ink used and the paper on which we are writing.

 

Moreover, some pen makers buy nibs from JoWo, for example, but tune them before shipping their pens. So, for example, I find the steel JoWo 1.1 stub nibs on Leonardo pens write crisper and narrower than, for example, the 1.1 nibs on Nahvalur pens. But JoWo's current steel 1.1 stub nibs are generally excellent, IMO.

 

David

Thank you for your reply, David. If the measurements relate to the physical dimensions, that's more concerning 😅 One or both of these companies must have failed to get their measurements correct.

 

Both do write impressively fluidly, and are not at all scratchy.

 

Edit: Using a jewellery loupe and a ruler, I had a quick inspection of both. The Nahvalur is as it should be, but the Pilot is markedly under 1mm- perhaps only 0.7mm. An uncharacteristic error from Pilot, if they claim the measurement relates to the tip of the nib, but a welcome error indeed.

[DLCJr]

My passion for writing with Italic/stub nibs began in the 1980's when I used Sheaffer No Nonsense Italic (1.0mm) pens to write correspondence with a slight bit of a calligraphic "look". These, now vintage, Sheaffer No-Nonsense pens with the 1.0 Italic nib are superb writing instruments to this day!

 

The vast majority of my writing with fountain pens is with 1.0 CM, 1.1, and (to a somewhat lesser extent) 1.5 stub nibs.  Predominantly Pilot Prera & Kakuno pens with the 1.0 CM nib, TWSBI 580, Vac 700, and ECO pens with the 1.1 nibs, and Lamy Al-Stars & Safaris with the 1.1 and 1.5 nibs.  I love the character of the writing with these pens/nibs... and they are wonderfully affordable pens, as well. I still do some writing with one or two of my 1980's Sheaffer No Nonsense Italic (1.0) pens, as well.

 

I have found that the name of the game, when it comes to stubs, is variability from one brand to another, and from one sample nib to another. Further, how a nib is "tuned" can significantly change how that nib writes as far as sharpness of edges, line width, and flow is concerned.

 

Here are some examples with my pens, on A5 size TomoeRiver 68gsm cream paper. The samples labeled Jowo are Goulet/Jowo replacement nibs.

[DLCJr]

Some more examples... also on A5 size TomoeRiver 68gsm cream paper. The color names refer to the color of the pens, themselves, not the ink.

 

1.0 refers to the Pilot <CM> nib, which is sometimes called a 1.0 nib. I love Pilot's <CM> nib, but for my preference, they are always too sharp-edged from the factory for my liking, so I tune them to be a bit softer writing and to flow better.

 

[RJS]

Here's a hastily prepared comparison of the lines produced by the Pilot nib (that clearly measures below 1mm in reality) and the Nahvalur 1.1 nib. Shown on Tomoe River paper, using two similarly wet inks.

 

 

I'd definitely be very keen to track down more sub 1mm nibs, but can't see much practical use I'd have for nibs above 1mm. I absolutely love this Pilot nib!

[Doc Dan]

My only stub nibs are 1.1 Jowo nibs on TWSBI pens in two different sized nibs. They are my favorite writers. 

[yubaprof]

Before reading this thread I had, after decades of using medium nibs, been thinking of trying a stub. This thread convinces me I should give it a try. What is the difference, however, between CI and CM? I know CI refers to Cursive Italic, but CM?

Another question: I have a Pelikan M1000 that needs nib work. Would it be a good candidate for conversion to a stub? It's a medium nib. I also have a Montblanc 146 with a broad nib. It's a boring writer as is. Would it be a good candidate for conversion? 

Thanks for any advice that might be forthcoming...

David

[Misfit]

Welcome to stub and italic nibs! My absolute favorites. Glad you found them, as it’s better late than never. 

[RJS]

7 hours ago, yubaprof said:

Before reading this thread I had, after decades of using medium nibs, been thinking of trying a stub. This thread convinces me I should give it a try. What is the difference, however, between CI and CM? I know CI refers to Cursive Italic, but CM?

I found this thread trying to find an answer for you. It goes into some depth:

 

 

 

Coincidentally it also answers my question about the line width of the Prera, which is in no way, shape or form a 1mm nib. People generally seem to love it for introducing them to more usable stubs in the ≤0.7mm range. I have no idea how/why the claim that the CM nib is/was a 1mm stub perpetuates.

 

Either way, I recommend the Prera with CM nib, even if you buy it in Europe with its 100%+ markup on its Japanese price. (At least it doesn't cost 4x as much as the Japanese price, unlike Pilot's inks 🙄)

 

Edit: The demonstrator Prera (the one that can come with the CM nib) is cheaper than I thought in Japan, meaning that in Europe it costs 2.5x as much as in Japan.

 

The CM nib is called the calligraphy nib on the Japanese Pilot site, and no 1.0mm nonsense is found anywhere there.

[Karmachanic]

8 hours ago, yubaprof said:

Another question: I have a Pelikan M1000 that needs nib work. Would it be a good candidate for conversion to a stub? It's a medium nib. I also have a Montblanc 146 with a broad nib. It's a boring writer as is. Would it be a good candidate for conversion? 

 

Yes to both.  I had mine ground to curisve italics because greater line variation.

[yubaprof]

Thank you to RJS and Karmachanic for your responses. I am going to start with the Montblanc and if I like it as a stub then I will consider the Pelikan. Time for a change!

[dms525]

14 hours ago, yubaprof said:

Before reading this thread I had, after decades of using medium nibs, been thinking of trying a stub. This thread convinces me I should give it a try. What is the difference, however, between CI and CM? I know CI refers to Cursive Italic, but CM?

Another question: I have a Pelikan M1000 that needs nib work. Would it be a good candidate for conversion to a stub? It's a medium nib. I also have a Montblanc 146 with a broad nib. It's a boring writer as is. Would it be a good candidate for conversion? 

Thanks for any advice that might be forthcoming...

David

 

Pilot's "CM" nib connotes "Calligraphy Medium." In fact, it is a rather crisp italic nib that writes a line about 0.7mm wide. "CI" or "cursive italic" is a nib grind between stub and formal italic in smoothness and thick/thin line variation. CI can be any width.

 

I have a MB 146 with a B nib ground to CI. It is a wonderful writer. The Pelikan M1000 nib is rather springy, as you know. It would be interesting ground to a stub. I am not sure I would like it, but you might love it. 

 

Happy writing!

 

David

[Penguincollector]

15 hours ago, yubaprof said:

Before reading this thread I had, after decades of using medium nibs, been thinking of trying a stub. This thread convinces me I should give it a try. What is the difference, however, between CI and CM? I know CI refers to Cursive Italic, but CM?

Another question: I have a Pelikan M1000 that needs nib work. Would it be a good candidate for conversion to a stub? It's a medium nib. I also have a Montblanc 146 with a broad nib. It's a boring writer as is. Would it be a good candidate for conversion? 

Thanks for any advice that might be forthcoming...

David

  I had my boring, too big for my writing 1994 MB 144 B italicized by Kirk Speer last summer. It’s a night and day difference. Inks shade beautifully with this nib now. I used to dig it out for signing important checks and not much more, now it’s often in rotation. I’m getting my Duofold done next. 
 

  I’m not sure why italic nibs work so much better for me than large nibs, but they do. If anyone knows why a small hand can handle an IB but not a regular B nib, please chime in. 
 

  Would it be a terrible thing to have the B nib of a Namiki Silver Dragon done as well?

 

[arcfide]

Something that you may discover while working with stubs is that the angle of your writing makes a huge difference in the way that the stub writes. If the flat edge of the nib laid flat on the paper is adjusted to be various degrees off of parallel to the baseline, you can find that larger stubs are more or less usable for you. The key is finding the right edge angle to suite the type of handwriting you want to do, which, IME, is primarily about making sure that the upward connecting strokes/slants are along the same angle as the edge of the nib, so that they are written in the narrowest width that the nib can write. Doing this can make the whole writing pop and will often allow you to easily use larger stubs with smaller handwriting after some practice. 

[arcfide]

1 hour ago, Penguincollector said:

If anyone knows why a small hand can handle an IB but not a regular B nib, please chime in. 

 

See my post just above, that's the reason. A monoline B nib requires a larger effective handwriting to look good compared to an italic nib on the correct slant for your writing style. 

[Penguincollector]

8 minutes ago, arcfide said:

 

See my post just above, that's the reason. A monoline B nib requires a larger effective handwriting to look good compared to an italic nib on the correct slant for your writing style. 

  Thank you!  It makes total sense, I can make the monoline B look good, but it takes way more effort and can actually be tiring. 

[AmericanMonk]

On 4/13/2024 at 3:14 PM, Penguincollector said:

Thank you!  It makes total sense, I can make the monoline B look good, but it takes way more effort and can actually be tiring.

I feel like that is the case for EF, F, and M as well. Something that I love about stubs/italics are that they promote consistency. Because the relative angles, position, and direction changes the line width, the stub gives immediate feedback whenever a writer is inconsistent, whereas the consistent line from a typical nib looks the same regardless of any inconsistent movements. This is especially true of lefties who don't have the luxury of seeing previously-written words (for use as guidance) and who (if they're anything like me) grew up utilizing some inconsistent habits to avoid turning a page into a smeary mess.

 

@RJS and @yubaprof, welcome to the world of stubs and italics and everything in between!

 

(I also don't understand why Pilot's CM nib is labelled as "1.0mm". It seems to be a retailer claim. Pilot's US website doesn't recognize the nib. I employ the heuristic of, "well, Pilot's grinds are always thinner than their European counterparts." 😆 But what I do know is that I love the Pilot CM and how easily I can write very small characters, when necessary. Perfect for work, IMO.)

 

@Doc Dan's thread on stubs has some good insights on various brands, including some tidbits regarding alternatives to the CM nib.

[RJS]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:36 PM, AmericanMonk said:

.@RJS and @yubaprof, welcome to the world of stubs and italics and everything in between!

 

(I also don't understand why Pilot's CM nib is labelled as "1.0mm". It seems to be a retailer claim. Pilot's US website doesn't recognize the nib. I employ the heuristic of, "well, Pilot's grinds are always thinner than their European counterparts." 😆 But what I do know is that I love the Pilot CM and how easily I can write very small characters, when necessary. Perfect for work, IMO.)

 

@Doc Dan's thread on stubs has some good insights on various brands, including some tidbits regarding alternatives to the CM nib.

Thanks for the link, and the friendly welcome to the world of stubs 😀 I'm surprised how easy I find it to write with both stub nibs- I'd heard it took some practice and could come across as skippy at first. Do Pilot sell any 1mm stubs or are they all mislabeled by Western retailers? I'm looking at the $200+ pens.

 

I'm curious what CM alternatives there are out there, because they'd be usable for me as day to day pens, while the 1.1stub I have will be relegated to occasional use as a curiosity or for special occasions- birthday cards and Christmas cards. My lovely grandmother was interested in calligraphy in her later years, and always made the cards for her many children and grandchildren look beautiful.