Which are the best shading inks... Noodler's aren't, it appears.

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 4/16/2024 at 1:45 AM, AmericanMonk said:

I've found that FountainFeder is better for overseas purchases while Papier and Stift might be a better deal for German buyers.

I didn't know of those two places....thanks.

 

One of my problems is I'm cheap, and don't like paying postage....of course a bit dumb too, in the shops, what there are of them, don't carry what is available.

Perhaps I got to look in amazon more often too.

 

I'm a bit old fashioned, but buying with cash, saves money, even above postage..........no scotch induced midnight buy now.

With a whole world to do it in.

[Miz Black Crow]

On 4/10/2024 at 9:20 AM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Which are the best shading inks............Noodlers don't qualify, it appears. a few days ago, I started a thread on which Noodler inks shaded well and only two were mentioned. 

 

If that only generated two inks, then it seems the other thread under represented Noodler's. 

 

I'll start with some classics: 

Black Swan in Australian Roses 

Apache Sunset / Southwest Sunset

Navajo Turquoise / Mesa Turquoise

Air Corp Blue Black 

Golden Brown 

Kiowa Pecan / Pecan 

Revolution Blue 

 

There are many more that don't strike my brain at the moment, but Noodler's is indeed a great brand for shading (and one of your only options if, like me, you want shading plus water resistance). 

 

As for some mixes.... (Search the names here in the forum) 

 

Navajo Turquoise + 54th Mass + a touch of Black or Old Manhattan Blackest Black= "Black Swan in Icelandic Minty Bathwater" (a favorite recipe from the site) 

 

Private Reserve Plum + OMBB (or Black) = Old Private Blackest Plum (note: I am biased, because this is my mix) 

[Fo0zle]

Not sure which Noodler’s inks you saw mentioned, but their regular Blue-Black ink gives me some incredibly nice shading, especially with a wider nib size.

 

I also really like the shading from J Herbin’s Ambre de Birmanie 

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:27 AM, Miz Black Crow said:

I'll start with some classics: 

Black Swan in Australian Roses 

Apache Sunset / Southwest Sunset...Have.

Navajo Turquoise / Mesa Turquoise

Golden Brown ..........Have.

Kiowa Pecan / Pecan 

 

The other three I had heard of....and Ottoman Azure had been on an antique ink list of mine....but it wasn't until last year the imported Noodlers became cheap enough to buy here in Germany.

I wanted to make sure Navaho, Kiowa and Ottoman...shaded well.

 

Twelve or more years ago, I was pretty much up to date with shading inks...having a few threads involving shading............but I discover I have been living behind the moon since then....with all the new good companies.

I let buying pens and inkwells soak up ink money....and shudder at adding mailing costs to the price of ink....................cheap in all the wrong places.

[RJS]

Of the inks I'm currently using, R&K Alt-Goldgrün shades the most. That one is readily available in stores here in Germany, and it's cheap.

[Bo Bo Olson]

56 minutes ago, RJS said:

R&K Alt-Goldgrün shades the most

I have that ink, it is one of the must have even if seldom used inks...by me.

I have to try tht ink in a regular flex nib, in I think I've only used it in superflex nibs.

[RJS]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

I have that ink, it is one of the must have even if seldom used inks...by me.

I have to try tht ink in a regular flex nib, in I think I've only used it in superflex nibs.

I definitely think it looks more attractive on some papers than on others, and have found the pen also makes a huge difference. Drier pens will show a lot more shading, even if they're a nail. I have it in a dry pen with a EF steel nib with no flex and it shades tremendously on Tomoe River.

[TSherbs]

31 minutes ago, RJS said:

I definitely think it looks more attractive on some papers than on others,....

Yes, because in my experience it scorches some papers, bleeding through completely and losing all of its tonal variation. I disliked that variability to the point that I gave my bottle away. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

3 hours ago, RJS said:

Drier pens will show a lot more shading

Have a good number of regular flex pens, of various widths......too many in my two dirty pen cups.

3 hours ago, RJS said:

Tomoe River

I don't have that paper.

3 hours ago, TSherbs said:

it scorches some papers,

Which? I try outside of Rhoda 80g, which I don't have, having the 90g Rhodia which some folks like less than the 80g.

I strive to have 90-100g papers for normal scribbling. (and that has gone real down hill in the last couple years...they have stopped coating the heavier papers, so they become real expensive printer paper.)

I do have heavier 120-150g and one grand $$$$ 170g paper.

Even with in a brand, papers can vary much.

Artoz is a Swiss paper...the 100g laid seems good, in I have that in various shades, not yet used....sample sheets.

The rest of my Artoz papers ended up in the printer, even the paper pad, taken apart one sheet at a time, until I had it all in the printer.....

So much for hopes.

[TSherbs]

3 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 

Which? I try outside of Rhoda 80g, which I don't have, having the 90g Rhodia which some folks like less than the 80g.

I strive to have 90-100g papers for normal scribbling. (and that has gone real down hill in the last couple years...they have stopped coating the heavier papers, so they become real expensive printer paper.)

I do have heavier 120-150g and one grand $$$$ 170g paper.

Even with in a brand, papers can vary much.

Artoz is a Swiss paper...the 100g laid seems good, in I have that in various shades, not yet used....sample sheets.

The rest of my Artoz papers ended up in the printer, even the paper pad, taken apart one sheet at a time, until I had it all in the printer.....

So much for hopes.

 

I don't remember which, and I will write on anything that crosses my desk, and I like sending cards. I use too many unbranded papers/cards that come from all different sources for me to keep track (I don't bother tracking my paper usage any more). 

 

Tomoe River is the best paper for shading that I have ever used. But I don't recall what numbers 2-50 might be on that list. Especially with Alt-Golgrun. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thanks folks...........have copied all the inks to Word.

 

I have a new 'problem' ..I was given a gift card to my B&M, and he has few inks since Covid....and he only has Pelikan, MB and Kaweco and some Japanese inks.

 

Which are the better Japanese shading inks....I have only kon piki...in at €25 is a bit expensive for my walled.

But with a €20 gift card....I can go for one.

 

Looks like I'm going to clean out a M or B pen for this. ""Rohrer & Klingner ‘Sepia’ also shades, if grey-brown antique-looking inks appeal to you.""

I've not used this ink in it says it don't play good with other inks...and needes a real clean pen....off to clean a pen.

I have a Pelikan '50-54 semi-flex OM....hopefully it's not to wet....semi-flex is often too wet for shading inks.

Changed my mind...a drier regular flex M normal '90's marbled blue 200. Have it in a cup wrapped with a paper towel, and will see if in an hour if it's drained clean or not. I really love that nib from back when it was tear drop tipped...a very nice clean line  is to be had with tear drop '82-97 400 gold Pelikans and the 1985 up to @ 2017 or  200's before they too went over to the doule ball tipping.

 

I've been going ink crazy lately, I have a full and a narrow ink cup full of pens some 19...to be 20. Once believe it or not I got down to 7 from my 'normal 17 to use more ink.

 

This pen cup was once a mustard cup from 1795, but was missing the top, so ended up a pen cup. It is Meissen one of the top porcelain manufactures. 

The Meissen inkwells behind it are  from before 1922. The pen holder is one, with the Pelikan in it is from the Pfiffer time, of 1922-34 before he got fired by Hitler for being Jewish...His was a very good era.

The pen on the Herbin ink bottle is a '30's Osmia 222 push button filler.

Shamfully I have two full cups of dirty empty pens.

I've known for ages, one should let the pen drain out in a paper towel for at least 12 hours.

But because this ink is so sensitive to others ink...after two hours I cleaned it again and  there was still a tiny bit of old ink in the pen.

 

[RJS]

Some very pretty items you have  

 

What are your current favourite inks, out of interest?

[Bo Bo Olson]

Most of my ink wells are non sealing, only three can, these are the two big ones. Mostly with ink wells they are use often and refill when low. Back in the day of just having a couple inks, and often bookkeeping red and black.

One is softball size, the other is also 4 inches by 4 inches.

Much of a bottle of ink will go in...At the flea market for €35.

 

And my stage coach proof ink well. And it is from that era.

Over in one of the two paper sections is the full Montie of my inkwells.

This is one of my latter ones. Real Bauhaus

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't know if it's my best shading ink, but I was ever so glad I bought on Ebay my second bottle of the discontinued MB Sepia. I still have half a bottle of that left.

Back then all things MB was well hated on the com...and the advice was dump the ink and keep the bottle.

I didn't and most others here didn't understand murky...so MB Racing green was the most hated ink in the world..I had it in my hand...but in I was going to throw it way for the bottle, I decided to the brown...how was i a noobie to know sepia wasn't really a brown.

Three days after MB Racing Green was discontinued, it became the most beloved ink in the world...Two bottles would end your kid to Yale for two years.

€12 was for me expensive....and by the time I got off my TA, my B&M disn't have any and it had already cracked the €20  price on Ebay....And i still hadn't understood murky.

 

Some fine poster has an old thread with some 30-35 murky inks. A bit late as thing often are...I found out wow, there were a lot of those murky inks that weren't too bad.

..........

 

Best shading inks....R&K Verdura as a light lively green-green ink a nose better than MB Irish, a neck better than the discontinued Pelikan 4001 brilliant green.

R&K Altgoldgrun, Scabiosa, , Salix, ...I don't reember about Cassia...

 

I won't say best, but shade.

DA Sahragrau is not a gray ink, but is a greenish ink...Like the pale DA Golf again a green ink...an Ink I don't use much...but a need to have one bottle of.I never get around to using it, even if it's still on the use list.

 

I like Herbin...Cafe des ills, Lie de Thee...Blue Pervenchie or something...not going dig the bottle out to see how it is spelt. Vert Empire.

I really got to get some more Herbin inks.

 

Diamine Gray Fox. (Out to try is Ancient Copper...)

 

Shading....My new Octopus  Karmell, (an ink a bit redder than 4001 Brilliant brown. and Bronze which reminds me  of R&K Altgoldgrun. Was not impressed with their sheen inks.

 

4001 inks out side of black and the new dull and lifeless, non-shading dark green shade. I was able to give that bottle away to a guy I set up with the the basics of pens....otherwise I'd dumped it down the sink.

R&K Verdura will take the place of 4001 Brilliant Green for only €10.

 

Noodler  Golden Brown and Apache Sunset....The cost of US mailing was so expensive I had them delivered to my Motel when I went to the states for some business 12 years ago. I see they are now sold in Germany for €15...so was  why I started this thread, or the other one.

 

I have 4 old discontinued C'dA inks...that I don't remember any more which shade well. Storm is a very nice purple. Grand Canyon a very nice brown..I remember as a shading ink. Caribbean Sea...well there were other shading turquoises...those are small bottles...fancy looking.

(But not as fancy as too expensive to even think about new C'dA inks.) ...so being 'scarce...haven't use in ages. Saffron..I don't remember....but do know there were two more I should have bought.

For years I'd heard how expensive those inks were...but that was Stateside folks...was affordable in Germany... Being a bottom feeder back then...€8 for a small bottle was expensive each for 4 but not all 6....

 

I have ten or twelve Edelstein inks, double on Olivine and Smoky Quartz, many shade.

 

Lamy Crystal Agate shades very well but is the driest ink I've ever used...and one can only put one drop of glycerine in the bottle ... no more   and is is still dry . In an ink rush, down town, I bought luckily the second bottle, so both ended up in an empty MB shoe.As well as I tried to add only one drop, the second drop fell.

 

The other three Crystal inks didn't  make me want to use them again.

I have three other Crystal inks but if they shade they didn't do it major like the Agate.

 

MB Cool Gray, once Oyster gray is a good shading ink. Toffee, Irish Green. I don't have MB lavender-purple in my mind as shading...it might.

 

One has to be careful  look for shading with DA inks, many are saturated.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

R&K Sepia.

OK, I cleaned out a Pelikan 200 M very carefully...twice with three hour rest in a paper towel.

Tried it on 5 or so good papers... Pen used a '90's Pelikan 200 M regular flex with a tear drop tipping.

It is by me a gray ink.

 

I even brought out my honking big magnifying glass 1 1/2 inch thick by 4"....2.7 x 10cm..... no help.

I even went back and printed in hopes of more shading...da nada.

 

I have to look for shading.....often the comment, not much.

Subtle is not what I'm looking for in a shading ink.

 

Oxford Optic 90g & my new paper Kyome 70g....some.

CT 90g, & M&K 95g.. not much.

Mondi color copy 100g...have to look for it.

I normally expect good shading on 170g Gmund, Blank Beige creme. Not a hell of a lot.

Avery Zweckform 170g a slick paper...I expect any ink that shades to shade well on it. Some shading, more in cursive than in print. A here and there only.

 

I got to buy some of that Japanese river paper.

 

[Mercian]

2 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

R&K Sepia.

OK, I cleaned out a Pelikan 200 M very carefully...twice with three hour rest in a paper towel.

Tried it on 5 or so good papers... Pen used a '90's Pelikan 200 M regular flex with a tear drop tipping.

It is by me a gray ink.

Interesting observation. And a sad one too 

 

Its colour is a murky brown/grey, but I have found that it shades nicely for me - but then I’ve only used it in ‘drier’ pens than yours: an M205 ‘F’, and in some Parkers that have ‘M’ nibs.

(I currently have it in a 2013 Parker Urban ‘M’.)

 

Perhaps the flow from your M200 ‘M’ might be sufficiently wet to ‘drown’ (or ‘swamp’) the ink’s capacity for shading? 🤷‍♂️

[inkstainedruth]

@AmericanMonk -- I have an early batch bottle of Baltimore Canyon, and I don't remember the dry time being that horrible

But then, I just checked the revelant ink test notebook (which is really crummy and absorbent sketchbook paper).  On that paper it dried in about 15 seconds -- don't remember how it did on better quality/slicker paper.  And of course, Noodler's inks vary so much between batches.... 

And even on GOOD paper I don't remember it being as smudgy as IIRC Private Reserve American Blue (original formula) -- which was still smudgy after something like a MONTH on the crummy sketchbook paper....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Bo Bo Olson]

I have so many Pelikns ..vintage and semi-vintage narrower than modern....I don't think of them as a wet nib.....and I really should!

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

 

I do have some Parker's with M nibs.....Well a P-51...a P-45 was found, in I don't know how hard it is to clean that plexiglass sac.

Unfortunately my Waterman Mann 200 is an F, which is as narrow my modern tear drop or double ball tipped 200 EF Pelikans.

 

Is Cross a wet nib? I remember for years Cross labeled Pelikan 4001 inks Cross. I have a nice blue steel nibbed Cross Townsend in M.

 

Ah Ha I found a broken tipped P-45 Flighter  M...and a squeeze converter....hopefully not too old.

Letting the taken apart nib dry in a paper towel.

 

In all cases printing gave a bit more shading.

Same papers.

 

Kyome 70g, somewhat more with the dryer Parker 45 nib...Have to search for it.

 

Oxford Optic 90g...There is a touch more than with the wetter Pelikan nib.. Subtle.

 

CT 90g..on second look was mild subtle shading with the wet nib. A little bit better with a dry nib...best with printed dry nib. Adequate.

 

M&K 95g typing paper now called office....Some more than the before 'not much'.

Printing shows mild shading.

 

Mondi 100g color copy..lighter with the dryer nib, not much shading with the P-45.

Printed some, a tad better than 'look for it'.

 

170g Gmund... Very little except for the printing... A bit more than some.

 

Avery Zweckform 170g, writing not much if, compaired to the wetter nib.

Printing More than with the wetter nib.. Still not as good as hoped....and this is my shading master paper.

 

When I empty the oranges (including DIY mixes) out of six of my pens, these two pens will get emptied. I will just have to take extra care when cleaning them.

 

 

[AmericanMonk]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:56 AM, inkstainedruth said:

And of course, Noodler's inks vary so much between batches.... 

Too true. ☹️ Even diluted 4:1 with distilled water, I can smear my Baltimore Canyon to near illegibility after 15 seconds. I use HP32 Premium, NAT Papel Natural Sugarcane, my unknown planner paper, and college ruled notebooks from Vietnam and Brazil. They all act roughly the same. Even when dry there is a noticeable texture where the ink is on the page, as if there is a film on top of the paper. It is subtle but it there.

 

I'm glad your bottle behaves itself for you. I think that Baltimore Canyon is gorgeous and has some helpful properties. I'm envious! I really want it (and many other Noodler's inks) to dry faster. Nathan makes so many beautiful, misbehaving inks.

[TSherbs]

13 hours ago, AmericanMonk said:

Too true. ☹️ Even diluted 4:1 with distilled water, I can smear my Baltimore Canyon to near illegibility after 15 seconds. I use HP32 Premium, NAT Papel Natural Sugarcane, my unknown planner paper, and college ruled notebooks from Vietnam and Brazil. They all act roughly the same. Even when dry there is a noticeable texture where the ink is on the page, as if there is a film on top of the paper. It is subtle but it there.

 

I'm glad your bottle behaves itself for you. I think that Baltimore Canyon is gorgeous and has some helpful properties. I'm envious! I really want it (and many other Noodler's inks) to dry faster. Nathan makes so many beautiful, misbehaving inks.

 

Is a dry time of over 15 seconds a "misbehavior"? Or just not meeting your personal preference? 15 seconds seems pretty fast, to me, all inks considered. Some are fast, some are slow. Some sheen, some don't. Some are blue, some are orange. Etc. Would lack of sheen, say, also be a "misbehavior" if you were seeking it?