Asvine V-200: on Amazon first!

[PAKMAN]

Political Posts are not allowed on FPN, please keep it about pens.  Post removed. 

[Harold]

20 hours ago, Surlyprof said:

I have to admit that the v200 is very tempting but it strikes a nerve for me.  As an Industrial Designer who’s had his designs knocked off in the past, I struggle with the idea of buying some of these pens from Asvine, Majohn, Jinhao and Moonman.  Other companies such as Lamy, Montblanc, Leonardo and Conid have invested heavily in research and development, and designers like myself, to create original designs only to have their designs copied by manufacturers who cost cut the materials and manufacturing processes to release cheap knock-offs.  Granted, they are leveraging cheaper labor, manufacturing efficiencies and government support that many companies in other countries can’t afford.  But, this strikes me as a race to the bottom that may put designers like me out of work or even bankrupt smaller companies trying to create original designs while paying living wages.  In my work, I’ve witnessed first-hand, companies (often government sponsored) using 3D scans or stolen CAD files of existing products to quickly turn around tooling for these copies.  They can create copied tooling in mere hours from original designs that have taken months or even years to develop.  
 

Just to be clear, I am not faulting any particular nation here.  I have the same issue with companies like IKEA who release very similar products as those displayed a few months earlier at international furniture fairs such as the ICFF and Salon di Mobile in Milan.  As much as I’m tempted by attractive, very functional and very inexpensive knock-offs like these, I’m forced to vote with my dollars and purchase original designs.  Purchasing original designs over less expensive quantities will probably mean that my pen collection will never grow overly large.  At least it will be easier to organize!  I am also not judging anyone else who purchases these pens.  Like I stated originally, pens like the v200 are SO tempting.  I am just stating my own, very personal (and maybe selfish) choices with the intent of safeguarding the future of my profession and companies whose efforts I genuinely respect.  
 

John (hoping he hasn’t really “stepped in it” here)

I have mixed feelings about this, because you can't really buy a Conid anymore unless you get lucky once in a blue moon; not to mention they are literally an entire order of magnitude different in price. There is something to be said for the idea that mass producing a product much more cheaply than a competitor is also a form of innovation, and I wouldn't say Asvine are cutting many if any corners when considering purely the quality of manufacturing. How much of that is due to larger batch production, manufacturing innovation and how much of it is due to the other factors you mentioned above, that's anyone's guess. But if you're going to draw such heavy inspiration from another product, at least pay attention to the little details. You saved the time it takes to design it, so invest that time you saved into making it as good as can be.

[we58890]

I do not think quality is an issue here because Conid and the V200 are both quality products. The issue comes down to value. Do you want to pay $900 or $48 for a pen?

[SLinkster]

Ok hive mind, do I want to pay the extra $$ to get a Bock nib? I have Asvine pens with which I'm perfectly happy, they having the OEM Asvine nibs. I don't think I have a single Bock nib anywhere so have no basis for making an informed decision.

[Dan Carmell]

10 hours ago, SLinkster said:

Ok hive mind, do I want to pay the extra $$ to get a Bock nib? I have Asvine pens with which I'm perfectly happy, they having the OEM Asvine nibs. I don't think I have a single Bock nib anywhere so have no basis for making an informed decision.

If you prefer an EF as I do, I’d go with an Asvine nib. Many people find most Chinese nibs more dry than they’d prefer, but you already know these nibs. If you want to try the Bock and don’t mind the surcharge, try it. At worst you can swap in your favorite Asvine nib or buy an additional nib for 5-10 USD. 

[we58890]

1 hour ago, Dan Carmell said:

If you prefer an EF as I do, I’d go with an Asvine nib. Many people find most Chinese nibs more dry than they’d prefer, but you already know these nibs. If you want to try the Bock and don’t mind the surcharge, try it. At worst you can swap in your favorite Asvine nib or buy an additional nib for 5-10 USD. 

The Asvine nib is very good good and I feel it is not worth paying extra money for Bock.

[carlos.q]

3 minutes ago, we58890 said:

The Asvine nib is very good good and I feel it is not worth paying extra money for Bock.

… unless you have other pens with Bock nibs and would like to be able to easily exchange nibs with different widths between them. 😜

[SLinkster]

8 hours ago, Dan Carmell said:

If you prefer an EF as I do, I’d go with an Asvine nib. Many people find most Chinese nibs more dry than they’d prefer, but you already know these nibs. If you want to try the Bock and don’t mind the surcharge, try it. At worst you can swap in your favorite Asvine nib or buy an additional nib for 5-10 USD. 

 

Thanks Dan, I'm thinking on that same line. Dry is one word I'd use, certainly. Parsimonious is more expressive. I've finally written dry the P136 stub that I inked up back in late January - something I can do with a Western stub in a matter of minutes, it seems. 

 

I guess I *could* justify an upcharge for a Bock B nib, since there's no Asvine B on offer. But then I'm stuck with that nib unless I $pend up for more Bock nib units.

 

Decision made. Easy enough to make a stub myself (she says boldly and with confidence).

[lukeap69]

If you have an Asvine nib already, why not try the Bock? That's what I did. I ordered a P20 with Asvine F and a Majohn M800 with Bock just for comparison. 😁

[A Smug Dill]

23 minutes ago, lukeap69 said:

If you have an Asvine nib already, why not try the Bock?

 

Because the Bock nib version costs not insignificantly more, and for most buyers of Chinese-branded pens they don't necessarily prefer Bock on account of qualitatively better German-made steel F nibs out-of-the-box, but simply want to be able to swap in alternative Bock units (perhaps customised by FPNibs, etc.) they can source in Western markets to suit their preferences.

 

I've paid a similar price difference for a Moonman 800 variant with a Bock nib, and it didn't perform better in my book than the two Moonman 800 with own-branded nibs. I'm not impressed with the Bock nibs on my Kaweco Supra pens either.

 

The Bock EF nib on my Admok J800 didn't even write properly as supplied. It's OK now, after I adjusted it; but why should anyone want to pay more if they cannot expect the Bock nib to function right out-of-the-box?

 

The Bock 1.1 Stub nib on my Ranga clipless model 8B is pretty good; but I don't think that's an available nib option on any Chinese-branded fountain pen at the time of ordering on AliExpress or Taobao.

[lukeap69]

29 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Because the Bock nib version costs not insignificantly more, and for most buyers of Chinese-branded pens they don't necessarily prefer Bock on account of qualitatively better German-made steel F nibs out-of-the-box, but simply want to be able to swap in alternative Bock units (perhaps customised by FPNibs, etc.) they can source in Western markets to suit their preferences.

 

I've paid a similar price difference for a Moonman 800 variant with a Bock nib, and it didn't perform better in my book than the two Moonman 800 with own-branded nibs. I'm not impressed with the Bock nibs on my Kaweco Supra pens either.

 

The Bock EF nib on my Admok J800 didn't even write properly as supplied. It's OK now, after I adjusted it; but why should anyone want to pay more if they cannot expect the Bock nib to function right out-of-the-box?

 

The Bock 1.1 Stub nib on my Ranga clipless model 8B is pretty good; but I don't think that's an available nib option on any Chinese-branded fountain pen at the time of ordering on AliExpress or Taobao.

This is in line with many reviews I watched online. I don't think I have a pen with Bock nib yet so it will be an interesting experience. BTW, I got the M800 with Bock nib with a reasonable price. 😉

[Dan Carmell]

19 hours ago, lukeap69 said:

This is in line with many reviews I watched online. I don't think I have a pen with Bock nib yet so it will be an interesting experience. BTW, I got the M800 with Bock nib with a reasonable price. 😉

My complaint about Bock nibs is that they have no character. No doubt well-made, good materials, etc., but rather dull. Not worth the premium. Moonman, Asvine, Hongdian, all are preferable. I bought Moonman EF nibs to replace the ho-hum and not-very-fine Bock nibs that made my 3 M600 pens too expensive. The Moonman nibs are more attractive and are made by the pen maker. 

[lukeap69]

29 minutes ago, Dan Carmell said:

My complaint about Bock nibs is that they have no character. No doubt well-made, good materials, etc., but rather dull. Not worth the premium. Moonman, Asvine, Hongdian, all are preferable. I bought Moonman EF nibs to replace the ho-hum and not-very-fine Bock nibs that made my 3 M600 pens too expensive. The Moonman nibs are more attractive and are made by the pen maker. 

Bock seems to have developed a bad reputation. I remember that Leonardo even moved on from Bock to Jowo.

 

I have 5 Moonman (Majohn) nibs ans only the EF is the one I did not like. I would have preferred them to write wetter TBH except for their stubs which are one of my favourites.

 

Asvine nibs have been getting good reviews. I have yet to receive my P20 so I can experience myself.

 

Thanks for your feedback 

[we58890]

Chrisrap52 did a review of the V200 with a Bock EF nib and he didn't like the nib:

 

 

[we58890]

On 3/26/2024 at 12:59 PM, Karmachanic said:

 

Conid Minimalistica was available last week.  All avalable were sold in one a afternoon ±  I choose Conid.  Saving my pennies for the Maximalistica.

Conid has shifted from production of pens to medical equipment.

[Karmachanic]

3 hours ago, we58890 said:

Conid has shifted from production of pens to medical equipment.

 

Not quite.  Werner Helsen, owner of Komec (maker of medical equipment) got together with his friend Francis Gossens, who designs the pens, and founded Conid, using the Komec machines during down times.  More here:

https://www.conidpen.com/bulkfiller/

[SLinkster]

On 4/3/2024 at 1:08 AM, SLinkster said:

Decision made. Easy enough to make a stub myself (she says boldly and with confidence).

 

Amazon just delivered my Asvine p200 with a set of 3 additional nibs in all sizes. I'll flush it before work tonight, decide while I'm schlepping parcels around what to ink it with. 

 

Pretty sure I will not be posting this one, the cap seems to weigh nearly as much as the pen!

[Shanghai Knife Dude]

the guitar man paid $28 for v200, no fancy ripped off nib, just the pen on its own. 

[Dan Carmell]

18 hours ago, Shanghai Knife Dude said:

the guitar man paid $28 for v200, no fancy ripped off nib, just the pen on its own. 

I won’t pay extra for a Bock or Schmidt when I prefer not just Asvine, but many other Chinese nibs, since they usually are tuned to write drier and that’s my preference as well. 

[Mech-for-i]

Conid is a juicy topic but AFAIC , theirs themselves are not originally styled either , the filling mechanism the whole thick rod of a cylinder with a knob at the end , those were there already at the very early days of fountain pens and even predates fountain pen if one really be critical

 

There are very very few original design these days and it's ok , so long the pen itself is styled proper

 

But for certain models , like the multitude Moonman and the various Safari clones it's downright pirating industrial design and my take is to not giving them the business

 

The V200 though is no such and am delight that we got another choice