Waterman Exclusive Cartridge

[I-am-not-really-here]

1 hour ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

Surely Waterman wouldn't be doing it on purpose. 

Why not? Waterman can argue it helps prevent counterfeit cartridges breaking their pens.

[Brandywine]

The problem is that there is no real standard for fountain pen cartridges like ISO or DIN that precisely mentiones measures and dimensions.

There is  ISO 12757-1 for ballpoint refills and others for rollerballs, but none for cartridges.

What now is known as international standard was the "Pelikan cartridge" in my school days (in Germany '76+).

There were mainly two systems: Pelikan and Geha; Lamy did exist but they were really exclusive and expensive, nothing for normal kids.

I don't know whether Pelikan invented their cartridge style but they made it popular: they were simply the most used style.

Other brands like Parker or Waterman had not yet arrived in German schools. We desired Parker Jotter ballpens, but they were expensive!

Montblanc had a way of their own: the mouth of their cartridge was a tiny bit smaller than Pelikan, so their cartridges would fit elsewhere but they could exclude Pelikan-style cartridges from fitting into their better pens,
they were wise enough not to do this with their pens designed for school use.

Some smaller brands used the Pelikan style cartridges which made supply for their users easy, they would not have sold any pens otherwise. 

Over the years they simply became "standard" because everyone used them and no one stopped them by way of a patent.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

7 hours ago, I-am-not-really-here said:

Why not? Waterman can argue it helps prevent counterfeit cartridges breaking their pens.

 

I find it problematic because it's an anti-consumer practice. They can argue that, as Montblanc can argue that using non-Montblanc inks can damage their pens, but at the end of the day, these are excuses for them to not hold up their end of the bargain regarding warranties.

 

I wouldn't really have an issue if they were up front about it. Say "our pens only accept proprietary Waterman cartridges" and be done with it. Plenty of companies do the same. Instead of this wishy washy nonsense where some pens fit them, some pens don't, and they market their own cartridges as standard when they are not.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...

 

(also, I did contact Waterman to ask them if their pens take standard cartridges to see what they would say but I did not get a response)

 

5 hours ago, Brandywine said:

The problem is that there is no real standard for fountain pen cartridges like ISO or DIN that precisely mentiones measures and dimensions.

There is  ISO 12757-1 for ballpoint refills and others for rollerballs, but none for cartridges.

What now is known as international standard was the "Pelikan cartridge" in my school days (in Germany '76+).

There were mainly two systems: Pelikan and Geha; Lamy did exist but they were really exclusive and expensive, nothing for normal kids.

I don't know whether Pelikan invented their cartridge style but they made it popular: they were simply the most used style.

Other brands like Parker or Waterman had not yet arrived in German schools. We desired Parker Jotter ballpens, but they were expensive!

Montblanc had a way of their own: the mouth of their cartridge was a tiny bit smaller than Pelikan, so their cartridges would fit elsewhere but they could exclude Pelikan-style cartridges from fitting into their better pens,
they were wise enough not to do this with their pens designed for school use.

Some smaller brands used the Pelikan style cartridges which made supply for their users easy, they would not have sold any pens otherwise. 

Over the years they simply became "standard" because everyone used them and no one stopped them by way of a patent.

 

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I was trying to find something on the history of the "standard" cartridge and couldn't find anything. Still, it seems to me that something that is explicitly marketed as "standard" should, well, have a defined standard. Do you have any more reading I could do on this? I find this stuff interesting.

[FarmBoy]

Parker has been using the same cartridge since they first sold a cartridge filled pen. 
 

 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

Predictably, glue did not work too well to hold the threads together, they're hanging on by a thread again (pun intended). I am guessing there's not really any good fix for this and when it goes, it will not really be fixable. Unless anyone has any ideas?

 

I guess I can keep this pen for parts when it does completely break. The cap and body of the pen are fine, and the nib is very decent after a tiny bit of smoothing. If I ever find a damaged one in the wild I can swap out those parts for these. Or just a new section, really.

[I-am-not-really-here]

2 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

Predictably, glue did not work too well to hold the threads together, they're hanging on by a thread again (pun intended). I am guessing there's not really any good fix for this and when it goes, it will not really be fixable. Unless anyone has any ideas?

Pictures?