Graphite leads, pencil writing, long-term preservation

[mr T.]

On 3/2/2024 at 1:12 PM, cekt957w said:

I tried searching the forum but I could not find any information on the subject. For context, I like to take notes of everything, and I'm interested in preserving the notes for very long periods of time. From my own research, i understand that graphite has a much higher lightfast rating than that of inks. But not all graphite cores are the same. Pencil hardness is a factor and its additives included in the mix of graphite and clay. I'm not very knowledgeable on this subject, but to me, a hardness of B (more graphite than clay) will outlive a hardness of H (more clay than graphite). Though i may be mistaken. The hardness that I like to write with is H, specifically 2H, 3H, 4H. This is because I like the core to stay sharp for a longer time. An HB, for example, doesn't even last half a an A4 page when I take notes.

 

Some questions off the top of my head...

Does the hardness matter in writing longevity?

Does the way you write matter; pressing down when you write?

Does the type matter, mechanical lead vs wooden pencil?

Do you we have any lightfast ratings on graphite pencils? A quick search online lists color leads, which makes sense because most people are interested in drawings, rather than writing. But I'm interested in graphite.

 

Has anyone ever done some tests, or researched this? At the moment, I'm writing with lead holders, with the Koh-I-Noor K190 2mm leads, but I can't any information on their leads, composition, ratings, nothing.

 

This should be an open discussion, and would appreciate any information, materials, research that you can provide.

 

Thank you.

There is no 'hardness'-standard in the world of pencils. Maybe you can look at the composition of the leads by looking at the MSDS from manufacturers. Did you ask major pencil brands/manufacturers like Staedtler, Faber-Castell, Uni-Mitsubishi, Bic or Pentel (or even smaller ones like Caran d'Ache, Koh-I-Noor, Stabilo, Viarco or Derwent) about the longevity of their graphite pencils and graphite leads? It could be a start.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 10:45 AM, Claes said:

In case you want to learn more about pencils, Henry Petroski's 500-page book "The Pencil" is highly recommended.

Is indeed an excellent book.

[cekt957w]

On 3/7/2024 at 4:31 PM, txomsy said:

In addition, remember silver tends to get darker brown with time as it oxidizes. What starts as a light mark may become darker with time.

 

And, remember as well, they were used in Art... and they still are. It may be easier to find a legit, good (and cheaper) silverpoint stylus if you look for them in Art supply stores for artist brands (e.g. Cretacolor).

But it remains legible, correct?

 

On 3/7/2024 at 12:50 AM, Graywolf503 said:

As many others have said above, you may want to consider metalpoint. The ancient Romans used to do some writing and marking with lead metal. Some of the more famous artists such as Leonardo da Vinci used to use silver. As noted above, special substrates were prepared that had a rough surface. A good substrate can be purchased today as stone paper.

Cheap versions of these “pencils” can be purchased on Amazon under the name of forever, endless, inkless, infinity, eternal pencils. These pencils use compressed graphite. A quite stylish version that does use metal, the Forever Pininfarina Cambiano Pen, can also be purchased.

 I should note that I own one of the Forever Pininfarina Cambiano Pens. All of these versions of pencils using metal give lighter marks more in the H range, and don't smudge. Indeed if you look at some of the reviews you will see many of the people complain of the lightness of the marks. If you use stone paper more material is laid down as the surface of the paper is rougher and thus the marks are darker.

Many drawings using silver are hundreds of years old and hold up well. They should hold up for your lifetime.

I generally stay away from new items because I don't trust their quality. If I am to buy anything I consider vintage first. But if a silverpoint is simply silver, why not just buy a rod and sharpen it? I think it could be more cheaper to just go to a smith and make one.

 

How does writing feel on a silverpoint? I tend to use H pencils due to their precision. From the time I've written this post, I have moved to 4H due to it's precision. I work and study in computer science and do a lot of math. Writing math with anything B feels wrong to me, it moves without any restriction.

 

The tip I assume would stay sharp for a very long time. The sharpening will work with a normal file or sandpaper?

On 3/5/2024 at 11:11 PM, tim77 said:

Leonardo da Vinci considerably predates the discovery of graphite!  He may have used charcoal (which arguably contains graphite, but is rarely described as such), but more often silverpoint and ink.  Silverpoint is much harder to erase than pencil.

Very hard to erase without damaging the paper, I would assume. Abrasive erasers I think would be the only ones that could work.

 

On 3/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, Claes said:

In case you want to learn more about pencils, Henry Petroski's 500-page book "The Pencil" is highly recommended.

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

 

I'll check it out. Thank you.

On 3/6/2024 at 11:36 AM, Claes said:

Leonardo's SIlver point is supposed to be indelible.

BUT: it calls for a special "substrate", i.e. you have to prepare

the surface with a thin coat of chalk/clay &c, to obtain a bit of "tooth".

That "tooth" rips off silver particles, those on the surface oxidize

rapidly. These strokes cannot be erased.

 

A local silver smith gave me two small "lead shaped" fine-silver rods,

one as 2mm, one as 0.9mm, which could be inserted into a common

mech pencil. Certain art suppliers sell full-length 2mm silver "lead",

to be used in FixPencil77 type pens.

 

Here is much more info in case you want to dive down: https://silverpointweb.com/

 

I'll try to locate them in a while, and will show how they behave...

 

Have fun!
Claes in Lund, Sweden

I had no ideea you could find rods. But these aren't mass-produced; I'm going to have to find a smith that can make me me some. This would be perfect since I own some vintage KIN mechanical 2mm and 2.5 mm pencils.

Edited March 18, 2024 by cekt957w

[Lithium466]

The Koh-I-Noor (Versatil) 5905, new or vintage, can handle leads from 2mm to 3,15mm and so is very practical for writing media that are not standardized in size.

I wholeheartedly recommend it as it's cheap, if you can get over the weight and maybe sometimes an imperfect QC on modern versions. I have several and use them to hold graphite leads extracted from wooden pencils (that are usually between 2 and 3mm in diameter).

 

Modern K-I-N leads are not the best though...but that's a matter if taste, after all you can like your graphite lead to give the same feedback as a Sailor nib

 

[Graywolf503]

Certainly the Silver Point (and indeed, many other types of metals) will remain legible over centuries. You might Google Leonardo Silver Point and some of the results will show drawings he made. They look as beautiful now as they did when he made them.

 

You can purchase silver rods, and sharpen them with a file or sandpaper. As I understand it, copper has also been used. The tip will slowly wear down overtime as you use it. I do believe Leonardo used a type of vellum with finally crushed stone on it. This would be similar to our modern day stone paper. There is some resistance more than using a graphite pencil. You cannot erase the marks. You will indeed destroy the medium the marks are on.

 

Please note that you do not have to use silver. Any soft metal such as copper, tin, bismuth, silver, lead would be soft enough to use. I have made metal point pens ( or pencils) from solder wire. Solder wire is a combination of 2 or three metals (tin, lead, silver, bismuth and may be others) and is used to solder copper wire or pipe).

These come as spools or rods and may be purchased at most hardware, electrical or plumbing stores.  Amazon is also a source.  The wire spools come in various diameter wires, and can be used in lead holders (of the proper size to hold the wire). I have made several metal point pens from cheap Bic Round Stics.

 

Please have a look at Alan Li's drawing site:
(https://www.alanlidrawings.com/blog/2017/8/29/drawing-with-silver?rq=silverpoint). He tells you how to make a do-it-yourself metal point pen from a mechanical pencil and craft jewelry wire. The wire is available at any craft/bead stores. Detailed instructions on how to do it are available at his website.

 

Be well and have fun my friend.