What makes Iroshizuku so special?

[arcfide]

3 hours ago, RJS said:

A question: Why do you think it only works in one direction? Japan>Europe price goes up. Europe>Japan price goes down in many cases. A Pilot pen flies to Europe and price goes up 2/3 times. A Lamy pen flies to Japan and almost halves in value. What is that if not market positioning?

 

We don't have to hash out previous threads here, but I'll certainly agree that a huge part of this is brand positioning, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think PIlot, in some sense, *has* to position premium in these markets to get any (meaningful) interest, mostly speaking from the US market mind. Positioning as a more premium brand is, IMO, quite important to getting the brand recognized in these other countries, and espeicially, getting people interested in the brand. 

 

Also, from what I have experienced of people working and living in Japan, what I think of as the typical expendable income available for lifestyle products is not nearly quite the same as the way that the US or European markets seem to spend in this way (particularly the US and maybe the UK). 

 

Put another way, yes, I do think it's simple market forces, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious example of such forces. Pilot even made price adjustments in foreign markets around Iroshizuku inks, IIRC, making them more affordable. If anything, Iroshizuku is a pretty affordable line of "premium" style inks. And, if it's worth anything, I *do* think that the Iroshizuku line is able to stand out from the standards such as Waterman, Pelikan 4001, and so forth. At the very least in terms of color, but also in terms of ink properties such as saturation. Maybe Waterman is underrated in terms of being a little more Premium-like than Pelikan 4001 or Parker, but it's not by that much. 

 

Iroshizuku might be suffering from being a little too reliable, and thus too "boring" for people, while Waterman clearly suffers from being "too cheap and easy" compared to other makers, who arguably make less good inks in many of their offerings, for a higher price. But overall I don't think the spread is so vast most of the time with these inks to really be shocked by any of the prices, myself. 

[RJS]

12 minutes ago, arcfide said:

 

We don't have to hash out previous threads here, but I'll certainly agree that a huge part of this is brand positioning, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think PIlot, in some sense, *has* to position premium in these markets to get any (meaningful) interest, mostly speaking from the US market mind. Positioning as a more premium brand is, IMO, quite important to getting the brand recognized in these other countries, and espeicially, getting people interested in the brand. 

 

Also, from what I have experienced of people working and living in Japan, what I think of as the typical expendable income available for lifestyle products is not nearly quite the same as the way that the US or European markets seem to spend in this way (particularly the US and maybe the UK). 

 

Put another way, yes, I do think it's simple market forces, but I don't see this as a particularly egregious example of such forces. Pilot even made price adjustments in foreign markets around Iroshizuku inks, IIRC, making them more affordable. If anything, Iroshizuku is a pretty affordable line of "premium" style inks. And, if it's worth anything, I *do* think that the Iroshizuku line is able to stand out from the standards such as Waterman, Pelikan 4001, and so forth. At the very least in terms of color, but also in terms of ink properties such as saturation. Maybe Waterman is underrated in terms of being a little more Premium-like than Pelikan 4001 or Parker, but it's not by that much. 

 

Iroshizuku might be suffering from being a little too reliable, and thus too "boring" for people, while Waterman clearly suffers from being "too cheap and easy" compared to other makers, who arguably make less good inks in many of their offerings, for a higher price. But overall I don't think the spread is so vast most of the time with these inks to really be shocked by any of the prices, myself. 

I agree with all of that.  I move around a lot, and spent a decade in Asia, so I'm quite an anomaly in that regard. I would rarely buy a bottle of ink priced over £15, and on principle wouldn't buy a bottle I know I can get for 1/4 of the price when I'm back in Japan. I agree Pilot are likely doing the correct thing from a business stand point- I just don't like it much 😅

[RJS]

21 minutes ago, arcfide said:

Also, from what I have experienced of people working and living in Japan, what I think of as the typical expendable income available for lifestyle products is not nearly quite the same as the way that the US or European markets seem to spend in this way (particularly the US and maybe the UK). 

Regarding this- it's complex. Some things can be shockingly expensive compared to other countries, like going to the cinema in Tokyo, taking a taxi, or buying a take away pizza there. I had a debate with a mixed group of friends recently, with some complaining how expensive Japan was, while others pointing out in relative terms they're doing better than a lot of Asia when it comes to disposable income.

[Karmachanic]

6 hours ago, RJS said:

Amazon Japan- Kon Peki was £8.60 equivalent last I checked

 

Today tsuki-yo's Y6047 - £32.60. kon-peki not available.

 

£24 on*Bay

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

6 hours ago, RJS said:

Regarding this- it's complex. Some things can be shockingly expensive compared to other countries, like going to the cinema in Tokyo, taking a taxi, or buying a take away pizza there. I had a debate with a mixed group of friends recently, with some complaining how expensive Japan was, while others pointing out in relative terms they're doing better than a lot of Asia when it comes to disposable income.

Agreed.  When my husband was still working at Carnegie-Mellon, he was on some projects that had a lot of Japanese grad students on them.  And one guy told him that the ONLY way he and his wife could afford a "nice" wedding reception was because his father worked for some major bank and therefore was able to rent the social hall the bank owned....  

Of course another co-worker announced at one point that her name had changed, and my husband asked the other guy if that meant she had gotten married or divorced or something, and the guy told him "I don't know -- and I'm not of the same social class as her so I can't even ASK...."  (I think that one of my husband's office mates ended up asking the woman, because as an American woman she was considered outside the "hierarchy").

I should ask some friends of mine that question about stuff like "disposable income" since they recently went to visit their daughter, who is currently in Japan (not sure if she's working or going to grad school or what, and forgot to ask, because of course the main topic of conversation at that point (this was at a party on New Year's Day) had to do with the recent earthquakes/tsunamis there.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[AndyYNWA]

On 1/16/2024 at 7:14 AM, DrPlush said:

 

It’s really, really reliable. If I want an ink from, for example, Sailor or Diamine, I need to try a sample before I commit because their inks can behave quite differently even within the same line. But with Iro I can just trust that the ink will be well-behaved and feel confident ordering it untried based solely on the colour. I have wasted heaps of money on inks that I like the look of and hate the experience of using, but none of them are Iroshizuku.

I have the opposite experience Iroshizuku/Sailor. With Sailor you always know what you're going to get. The Iroshizuku line is great, but the different inks have slightly different properties, making me want to try them before buying. A Sailor ink I can buy and know I will be pleased.

Diamine on the other hand can be all over the place...