Are the Chinese really into hooded nibs?

[apastuszak]

I don't think there is a modern fountain pen still in production that uses a hooded nib, except the Lamy 2000.

 

But there are so many hooded nib Chinese pens, many of them Parker 51 clones: the Wing Sung 601, the Hero 100, Hero 616, Jinhao 51a, and a bunch of others.

 

Now I know the history behind Hero and Parker, and how Hero can use old Parker machinery to crank out Parker parts. But I am curious if there is anything in the Chinese writing style or culture that makes them like hooded nibs more that the rest of the world. The hooded nib is practically extinct in Europe and North America. Not sure about Japan and other non-China Asian countries.

[inkstainedruth]

Well, though not strictly hooded, per se, I'm thinking of the Pilot Vanishing Point and Decimo (which are "click" fountain pens (in the style of click ballpoints) -- those are Japanese pens.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[langere]

Well, you do have the revival of the Parker 51, right?

 

Erick

[inkstainedruth]

@langere Are you talking to apastuszak?  Or to me?  Because if you're talking to me?  No, I DON'T have a "reboot 51" (aka, "a Sonnet in 51 clothing"... ).   

Why would I want one, when I have a bunch of vintage 51s (both Aerometrics and 51 Vacs) -- most of which I paid in the $50-80 US range for, including repairs on some of 51 Vacs (in other words, for less money than the reboot ones with the steel nibs cost....? 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[ParramattaPaul]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the last Fahrney's catalogue listed Parker 51s. and Sonnets.

 

Fountain Pens from all the top brands (fahrneyspens.com)

[apastuszak]

9 hours ago, langere said:

Well, you do have the revival of the Parker 51, right?

 

Erick

 

Not sure what Parker was thinking with the New 51. All they really needed to do was either release the "51" as-is again in some new color variants, or keep the design the same and just make it a cartrdige converter. Instead, we got a screw cap, and a hood forced onto a Jotter nib. All three major Chinese pen makers: Hero, Wing Sung and Jinhao can make a pretty good Parker 51 clone. Parker should have reached out to one of those companies to make the pen.

[Dan Carmell]

2 hours ago, apastuszak said:

Not sure what Parker was thinking with the New 51. All they really needed to do was either release the "51" as-is again in some new color variants, or keep the design the same and just make it a cartrdige converter. Instead, we got a screw cap, and a hood forced onto a Jotter nib. All three major Chinese pen makers: Hero, Wing Sung and Jinhao can make a pretty good Parker 51 clone. Parker should have reached out to one of those companies to make the pen.

Agree—and this was Parker’s THIRD try at a reissue of the 51. First the one with pretty Empire State caps and fragile plastic—but the guts weren’t a real 51. Then the Parker 100, a heavy metal hooded pen, and now the current disappointment. Parker just can’t make a 51 anymore, I guess. 

[ParramattaPaul]

3 hours ago, apastuszak said:

Not sure what Parker was thinking with the New 51. All they really needed to do was either release the "51" as-is again in some new color variants, or keep the design the same and just make it a cartrdige converter. Instead, we got a screw cap, and a hood forced onto a Jotter nib. All three major Chinese pen makers: Hero, Wing Sung and Jinhao can make a pretty good Parker 51 clone. Parker should have reached out to one of those companies to make the pen.

But, would it really be a Parker 51?

 

No it wouldn't; no more than the current MGs that are made in China.

[inkstainedruth]

3 hours ago, Dan Carmell said:

Agree—and this was Parker’s THIRD try at a reissue of the 51. First the one with pretty Empire State caps and fragile plastic—but the guts weren’t a real 51. Then the Parker 100, a heavy metal hooded pen, and now the current disappointment. Parker just can’t make a 51 anymore, I guess. 

Wondering now if it's another case of "planned obsolescence".  Make a pen that won't last, so a customer will have to buy another one in a few years.... 

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Ermennda]

I think that after the revolution that the Parker 51 produced around the world, China has been isolated from the western fads. Once that design was stablished it kept going as the normal everyday pen. Some of the models you mention have been in production for decades.

[Tashi_Tsering]

Modern S. T. Dupont Millenium have hooded nib. Sheaffer Icon, modern Aurora Duo Cart — semi hooded

[apastuszak]

On 10/24/2023 at 12:42 PM, ParramattaPaul said:

But, would it really be a Parker 51?

 

No it wouldn't; no more than the current MGs that are made in China.

 

Parker made a Cartridge/Converter 51 for a short while back in the 60s.

 

So if they made a pen with the same nib, hood, feed and ink collector, but had it use a modern Parker converter, I think it would be a 51. If they really wanted to be fancy, they could call it the Parker 52. Or since the 51 was called that, because it came out on the 51st anniversary of the Parker Pen Company, call this one the Parker 135.

[greencobra]

i think the chinese are into making money. parker 51's are extremely popular and people go mad chasing them for prices north of $100. pretty smart business to give the people who don't want to spend the money on a real one an opportunity to buy a clone for 10 dollars, sometimes less than that. i think they figured that out a long time ago. rolex for $150? anyone? 

[apastuszak]

My experience with Chinese pens so far has been:

 

1. Wing Sung. Good quality parts.Great fit and finish.  So-so nibs

2. Jinhao - OK Parts. Fit and finish vary by model. Great nibs.

 

I have no experience with Majohn or Hero.

 

In my perfect world with Chinese pens, we'd have a WIng Sung pen with a Jinhao nib on it.

[ParramattaPaul]

4 hours ago, greencobra said:

i think the chinese are into making money. parker 51's are extremely popular and people go mad chasing them for prices north of $100. pretty smart business to give the people who don't want to spend the money on a real one an opportunity to buy a clone for 10 dollars, sometimes less than that. i think they figured that out a long time ago. rolex for $150? anyone? 

I suspect that you are right.  I agree that their motive for producing Parker clones may be that they sell; profit being the goal.

[inkstainedruth]

2 hours ago, apastuszak said:

My experience with Chinese pens so far has been:

 

1. Wing Sung. Good quality parts.Great fit and finish.  So-so nibs

2. Jinhao - OK Parts. Fit and finish vary by model. Great nibs.

 

I have no experience with Majohn or Hero.

 

In my perfect world with Chinese pens, we'd have a WIng Sung pen with a Jinhao nib on it.

When I started out I bought some $5 Guanleming pens.  A couple were decent writers for the money.  The third one, a demonstrator model? I snapped the cap finial off by accident when the clip got caught on the elastic in a pen case (which was kinda a bummer because that was my "Bay State Blue" pen at the time -- for five bucks, I didn't mind if it got stained....  

Someone gave me a Jinhao 599, and it was okay, but clearly not as a good a writer as a real Lamy Safari/al-Star, in that I had flow issues with it (but it did teach me that I *could* get used to the triangular section -- so not a total loss ).

Oh, and somewhere along the line I was given a Wing Sung 237 (which I completely forgot I had until I checked my inventory notes just now... ).   I have no experience with Majohn pens.

And a few years ago, a guy who used to be in my local pen club bought a pack of Hero 616 pens off eBay and was just handing them out to anyone who wanted one.  And mine?  Ehhh, well... it writes.... But it writes like a pen that cost a buck (although did do okay with IG ink in the converter sac).  And makes me wonder if the pack was actually a knockoff of REAL Hero 616 pens (which are a 51 knockoff themselves)....

Someone gave my husband a Hongdian 6013 (?) pen a while back.  I don't know if he uses it (it has a metal body, so it's WAY too heavy for me); mostly he uses the Vanishing Point I got used and gave him because it was too heavy and awkward for me (he wanted to swap out the F nib for an EF one and that gave me the excuse to buy a Decimo, which is a better size for my hand, and then just swap out the nib assembly -- cheaper in the long run as far as I was concerned than just buying a different nib assembly); and he might also have the Safari (which he asked for when I was ordering this year's al-Star SE) inked up.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[apastuszak]

2 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Someone gave me a Jinhao 599, and it was okay, but clearly not as a good a writer as a real Lamy Safari/al-Star, in that I had flow issues with it (but it did teach me that I *could* get used to the triangular section -- so not a total loss ).

 

 

I bought a Jinhao 777 last year. Very close to a Lamy Safari. I had it ink up for months and forgot about it. When I found it again, I just uncapped it and it wrote. One seller on eBay has them for $9.49 US and they're in California. I saw ton of these pens a few years ago. Now just the one seller. I wonder if Lamy sued them.

 

[inkstainedruth]

Well, given that those appear to be SE colors for Safaris (the purple one looks VERY similar to the Violet SE except for the lack of an imprint -- I have a Violet SE as well), they very well COULD have sued Jinhao.... (The other two in the photo DO say JINHAO on them, like the Jinhao 599 I have.)

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[apastuszak]

I ended up giving mine away to someone. My wife bought me 4 Safaris when Barnes and Noble had their Safari clearance sale. Why use a knock off when you can use the real thing?

[inkstainedruth]

True that....

Of course it's probably good for my budget that I didn't know until just now that B&N ever CARRIED Safaris.... 

Especially given that I just dropped over $100 US for a bunch of books and one magazine a week or so ago....  Most of the books were actually for my husband (a sales clerk was recommending stuff to him) and I overheard part of the conversation, which was in the SF/Fantasy section.  And happened to be at about eye level with the shelf carrying a bunch of stuff by Neil Gaiman.  I said I couldn't decide who I liked more -- him or Peter S. Beagle.  And the sales clerk said "Oh -- there's a new book out by Peter Beagle!"  

Now I almost NEVER buy fiction in hardcover -- I don't have the bookshelf space.  But I did buy that book (two novellas, both from the world of _The Last Unicorn_ (one of my favorite books on the planet since I was nine! -- my falling apart paperback copy from back then I got autographed a number of years ago when he was Filk GoH at a local SF con).  And one of the novellas apparently won BOTH a Nebula and a Hugo!  

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth