Why do Parker 51s cost so much?

[apastuszak]

From what I read, Parker sold an insane amount of 51s. And these things seem to be insanely reliable. You would think the used market would be flooded with old Parker 51s selling for well below $50.00. I should bump into a bunch at antique stores also. But I've never seen one in an antique store, and they're always selling for well over $80. I lucked out and got some for under $50 off Craigslist. But that seems to be far from the norm.

[jchch1950]

Parker sold many Parker 51 pens, many of which are still in good shape because they were made with quality materials and the design is good even by today's standards. Many people use them on a daily basis.  On the second-hand market prices are determined by supply and demand, so a certain price for a pen will be the result of how many people want them and how many are available at certain moments and places. Also, certain colours and models are more sought after than others by collectors and this has a repercussion on prices.

[txomsy]

1 hour ago, jchch1950 said:

On the second-hand market prices are determined by supply and demand

Which also means, if there are many produced, but nobody wants to get rid of theirs, second-hand availability is low. If the pen is good, demand is high. You get the drift.

 

That a pen is made in large quantities needs not mean it will be cheap, witness the MB146/149. So, maybe you should take its sustained price tag as an indication of a trajectory of quality and user satisfaction. Note that having a long trajectory of anything does not mean one cannot switch to another direction any time, but it gives you some background.

[Estycollector]

You might be able to find plenty of them for that price that are unrestored. The restoration will increase the cost because of rare parts and the expertise to restore. This pretty much holds with any of the popular brands. Consider the Esterbrook Dollar and later until the mid '50's, you can find them unrestored for $19, but restored ones on eBay are $50 plus. 

[Nethermark]

13 hours ago, jchch1950 said:

market prices are determined by supply and demand

Yes, it's supply AND demand

 

I regularly have the chance to buy 51's for about $50, but that for unrestored pens. Most of them only need a bit of a clean. For such a good quality pen with a gold nib, that's a steal. 

[Penguincollector]

You just have to keep an eye out. I found 2 green aerometric 51s for $4 each last year. I paid $2 for a 51 special in 2001. All just stumbled upon, none restored, one needed a new barrel and a nib tuning. 

[welch]

I began buying P-51s in 2007 or 2008. They have always been priced between $75 and $125 for a single pen that is not a collectible target. Parker sold many, many of them, but they were top-of-the-line pens, gift pens on graduation, or pens for professionals. When I got my Parker 45 in 1960, it was about $4.98, and when I replaced it in 1967, it was maybe $6. The 45 was introduced as a school pen, replacing the Parker Super 21. In 1960, the 51 was about $12...and, best I can tell from currency conversion, so was the big Montblanc. 

 

The P-51, like the Parker 61 and Parker 75, were always expensive. They happen to be reasonable compared to current $500 luxury pens. A refurbished 51 today is a bargain -- only about half the price of a Lamy 2000. 

[HT in NYC]

Still, if you want a pen for daily use, a 51 aerometric is about the best investment you can make. 

[kestrel]

5 hours ago, Penguincollector said:

You just have to keep an eye out. I found 2 green aerometric 51s for $4 each last year. I paid $2 for a 51 special in 2001. All just stumbled upon, none restored, one needed a new barrel and a nib tuning. 

Agreed.  I have seen a dozen "51s" in the field over the last ten years but I walked through a LOT of antique shops.  Nine out of ten were in small, out of the way shops that specialized in whatever they could get.  All but one were less than $20.00 US and all the aerometrics were writing like new after a thorough flushing.  I suspect the hooded nib tends to drive the price down in these smaller places.  Open nibs are so much more impressive even if they are only gold-plated (with the word "plated" hidden in the section).  It just takes plenty of legwork and pawing through a lot of fourth and fifth tier junkers not even fit for parts pens to find a bit of gold amid the dross.  My ultimate rewards were a Conklin Halloween selling for $35.00 US and a near mint Nassau Green "51" for $9.00 including tax.  The "51" was lurking in a shaving mug full of novelty pens that went bang when you uncapped them in a store that sold depression glass and china.  You just have to keep your eyes open.  With vintage pens a lot of the fun (and the challenge) is in the quest.

 

Happy hunting.

[FarmBoy]

A steel nibbled Esterbrook Estie retails for 175.  Using that as a guide I’d think 51s should run in the 250 and up range. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

They sold for $15 at the time they came out in the 1940's, that's the equivalent of almost $200 now. That's for the standard model, not a full gold fill one or anything fancy. They might have made a lot of them, but they were not cheap pens, and they've kept their value. Demand is still high so prices are high despite supply being plentiful. 

 

For what it's worth, I probably have near a dozen 51s now (mostly aerometrics but a few vacs) and I've only paid more than $40 for one. The one I paid $60 for was a Signet (gold fill) set, pen and pencil. And to be fair, a fairly beat up one, not great condition. But you have to look for them, they won't fall into your lap.

 

If you want a good pen for cheap, you have to spend time looking for it. Scour the auction sites and estate sales, and blurry lots on eBay. And absorb the loss when you buy something that looks like a great deal but ends up being a parts pen. If you want to buy a Parker 51 in nice condition on demand, you're going to pay for the privilege. 

 

One thing that I've found interesting is that I often see "unrestored" aerometrics go for cheaper than unrestored vacs. I would think that the aerometrics should be cheaper since they're easier to get up and running, but I guess the novelty of the vacumatic filling system adds some appeal? Parker 51 Specials are also a great deal.

[ralfstc]

Oooh, a chance to tell my story! I go through a lot of antique stores, especially when I travel. I've found quite a few "51"s and 1940s Sheaffers, and I'm always really pleased.

 

In terms of a bargain though, my best was a year ago in Wisconsin. A first year "51," a little used but not at all bad. All the hallmarks (date stamp 1, position of stamp, speedline filler, blank nib, double jewel etc.). It's my favourite "51" because it really does write so well.

 

$35.

 

Keep looking, they are out there!

 

Ralf

 

 

[apastuszak]

I own 3 51s now. I bought an aerometric pen and pencil set for $50. I bought a vaccumatic for $35, and another aerometric for around $60.  All were Craigslist finds.

 

There was a posting on Craigslist about 5 minutes from my work for $35. Seller agreed to meet me at lunch. One hour before we met, I get an email from him about how I am ripping him off and how he found out what he really has. He said he would not meet me.

 

So, I check Craigslist again and now he has the pen up for $200. It's a late 1960s aerometric that looks "well loved."

 

I message the guy back and tell him he's only going to get $200 for a fully restored pen. I wished him the best of luck in selling it, and to reach out to me if he hadn't sold it. I got another email from him about how I tried to rip him off with a bunch of f bombs in it and how he would never talk to me again for trying to rip him off.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

4 hours ago, apastuszak said:

I message the guy back and tell him he's only going to get $200 for a fully restored pen. I wished him the best of luck in selling it, and to reach out to me if he hadn't sold it. I got another email from him about how I tried to rip him off with a bunch of f bombs in it and how he would never talk to me again for trying to rip him off.

 

Yikes, people like this are the worst. I find that it's better not to engage with ignorant sellers like this. I had a guy try to sell me a Macy's branded ringtop for $300 once, I am sure that guy just didn't want to sell to me though and quoted the most ridiculous price he could think of.

 

Was kind of sad because I like collecting these store branded pens, they're not too common. But there was no way I was paying more than $40-$50 for it...

[apastuszak]

I think one problem we face is people hop on eBay, search for something they have to sell, and assume it goes for all the listing prices they see. But those listings are probably there because they DIDN'T sell.

 

No one bothers to check the closed auctions that sold to see what actual market value is for something.

 

Some sellers are just stubborn. They'll re-list the same item repeatedly, thinking it's eventually going to sell for the price they listed it for. I see this a lot with Craigslist saved searches. I'll see the same item pop up every week because the person keeps re-listing it. It happens a lot with vintage items such as turntables.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

8 minutes ago, apastuszak said:

I think one problem we face is people hop on eBay, search for something they have to sell, and assume it goes for all the listing prices they see. But those listings are probably there because they DIDN'T sell.

 

No one bothers to check the closed auctions that sold to see what actual market value is for something.

 

Some sellers are just stubborn. They'll re-list the same item repeatedly, thinking it's eventually going to sell for the price they listed it for. I see this a lot with Craigslist saved searches. I'll see the same item pop up every week because the person keeps re-listing it. It happens a lot with vintage items such as turntables.

 

I think part of it is that to a layman it's hard to tell why a pen is worth a lot. A first year double jewel 51 like the one @ralfstc (lucky guy!) found is worth a hell of a lot of money but to someone unfamiliar with pens looks exactly like a common single jewel aerometric. 

 

That's understandable, but I don't like when sellers respond with hostility. Being unable to admit you don't know everything and reacting by cursing someone out is just really immature. Makes me wonder how these people live their day to day lives, probably not pleasant to interact with.

[apastuszak]

1 hour ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

I think part of it is that to a layman it's hard to tell why a pen is worth a lot. A first year double jewel 51 like the one @ralfstc (lucky guy!) found is worth a hell of a lot of money but to someone unfamiliar with pens looks exactly like a common single jewel aerometric. 

 

That's understandable, but I don't like when sellers respond with hostility. Being unable to admit you don't know everything and reacting by cursing someone out is just really immature. Makes me wonder how these people live their day to day lives, probably not pleasant to interact with.

 

 

What's annoying is that he listed an item for a price. I offered to buy it. I was not ripping him off. I agreed to the exact price he listed. He then upped the price to something I considered unreasonable, so I chose not to buy it, and I think that upset him. Did he think I would tell him he undervalue his pen and offer him more money out of the goodness of my heart?

 

I had a similar issue with a trackball I was trying to buy. Somebody posted a "vintage" trackball on offerup.com. I offered to buy it. His price was $25.00. He told me he was going to put it up on eBay and I could buy it there, since eBay's fees were lower than the fees on Offerup. Well, this specific trackball lists for between $100-$200 in the used market. He must have done an eBay search, because stopped responding to my messages. And all new listings for that model trackball over the next 2 days were for $150.00.

 

I'm willing to work with people. I once bought a turntable off someone on eBay and asked them to please PM me before they ship it. The guy did. I sent him a video on how to properly pack a turntable for shipping. 2 days later he pings me and tells me that shipping was WAY MORE expensive than he thought. He did not know how much it would cost to pack a turntable properly and ship it. I told him I'd give him another $20 for shipping. He thanked me, and all was well.

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

20 hours ago, kestrel said:

Agreed.  I have seen a dozen "51s" in the field over the last ten years but I walked through a LOT of antique shops.  Nine out of ten were in small, out of the way shops that specialized in whatever they could get.  All but one were less than $20.00 US and all the aerometrics were writing like new after a thorough flushing.  I suspect the hooded nib tends to drive the price down in these smaller places.  Open nibs are so much more impressive even if they are only gold-plated (with the word "plated" hidden in the section).  It just takes plenty of legwork and pawing through a lot of fourth and fifth tier junkers not even fit for parts pens to find a bit of gold amid the dross. 

Truer words were never spoken.  I found a couple in booths in a local-ish antiques mall a few years ago, both having the wrong caps on them.  The first one had the cap from some 3rd tier brand on it, but I'd been tipped off by a friend (FPN member Uncle Red) that even 3rd tier brand pens could have good nibs on them.  And it turned out to be a Cedar Blue 51 Vac when I looked at it more closely.  Then a booth on the 3rd floor had a pen with the cap for a Parker Frontier -- and THAT pen turned out to be a 51 Aero....  I think I paid $10 US + tax for the 51 Vac (it didn't have a price tag on in, and the guy who opened the case didn't know what to offer, so I said, "Well, the Wherever is X amount and the other pen is marked at Y amount].  Then paid $15 + tax for the "Frontier".  And when I got back to the car, I couldn't start the engine at first because I was laughing so hard....

The previous time I'd been in that antiques mall?  I'd found a whole lot of nothing (except a toy horse like one I'd had as a kid, and some of those awful "milk glass" cups with the raised dots on them that I think my mom inherited and which I'd ALWAYS hated).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Sailor Kenshin]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:19 PM, Penguincollector said:

You just have to keep an eye out. I found 2 green aerometric 51s for $4 each last year. I paid $2 for a 51 special in 2001. All just stumbled upon, none restored, one needed a new barrel and a nib tuning. 

 

  👍🏻The Specials are great writers.  Mine's been inked for months now.

[inkstainedruth]

19 minutes ago, apastuszak said:

I'm willing to work with people. I once bought a turntable off someone on eBay and asked them to please PM me before they ship it. The guy did. I sent him a video on how to properly pack a turntable for shipping. 2 days later he pings me and tells me that shipping was WAY MORE expensive than he thought. He did not know how much it would cost to pack a turntable properly and ship it. I told him I'd give him another $20 for shipping. He thanked me, and all was well.

One of the local estate sale companies blathers on their website about how "this isn't a garage sale -- we're selling peoples' lifelong collections".  Yeah?  Well, most estate sales I've been to, the prices suggest otherwise.  And in one I decided was NOT worth getting up at the crack of dawn this past weekend?  The photos were so bad I couldn't tell WHAT I was looking at....

And sadly, I DO have to get up at the crack of dawn any more -- to maybe drive an hour and then go stand in line for ANOTHER hour to get there before the "pickers" do.  Which means that if there's NOTHING I want, I can sleep in on a Saturday (the days of me randomly finding stuff late in the morning on a Saturday when I have nothing better to do are LONG gone (but did net me the Parker 41, digging through a shoebox full of mostly ballpoints (with a few pencils and a couple of highlighters and markers).  Although one of the other companies had a photo on their FB page yesterday that made me laugh -- a guy standing in front of a chalkboard FULL of complicated equations and in one section of the "chalkboard" it lists the names of several of the local estate sale companies....

Ironically, when my dad died, I asked the estate attorney about having a sale, and he said that there wasn't anything worth *trying* to sell: to just take any personal belongings and mementos (the rest was going to go to Goodwill...).  I wonder how much doesn't sell at some of the sales I've been to around here (as opposed to where in NJ my dad lived), and how much of that goes to places like Goodwill (I've often seen really decent furniture, but have no place in my house for stuff like that).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth