EFNIR: Kakimori Kurun

[yazeh]

@LizEFnow I have the image of.tou.dping reviews in an active.microwave 😁

[LizEF]

53 minutes ago, yazeh said:

@LizEFnow I have the image of.tou.dping reviews in an active.microwave 😁

Right up until I explode!

[PJohnP]

1 hour ago, LizEF said:

Around here, you leave a package of anything open for 2 hours and it's a rock forevermore.  I keep a small piece of bread in my Rolaids so they don't break my teeth...  (And have to replace it now and then as I don't use them that often and after a while, they and the bread are rocks...)

 

...

 

It will probably be a couple of weeks before I even start on these experiments...

 

<deep chuckle>

 

Living in the US Southwest now, I can hang up a pair of wet jeans and they fully dry overnight.  When I tell this to my friends in the UK or places like Vancouver in Canada, there is often a short silence followed by a prolonged hissing and sighing sound that emanates from between teeth.

 

Having lived in very high humidity locations such as near the Delaware River where paperback book covers would completely curl up in the summer months, I like low humidity.  I just need to buy more moisturiser (a guy's next-to-best friend here).  This is a small thing compared with the rising damp I experienced when living in the UK.  <quirky smile>

 

 

 

I'll look forward to your next experiments !

 

John P.

[LizEF]

10 minutes ago, PJohnP said:

Having lived in very high humidity locations ..., I like low humidity. 

Ditto!  I spent two months last summer in a high humidity area and it was miserable - for me.  Twitch your little finger and it feels like you're sweating.  After some weeks, I went and bought a giant fan and would often just sit with it blowing on me - people underestimate just how much moving air speeds evaporation.

 

Thanks for sharing your desert experiences!   Hopefully I won't keep everyone waiting too long for the results of my experiments.

[yazeh]

57 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Right up until I explode!

Heaven forefend 😊 or until we've finished Quin 😜

[LizEF]

35 minutes ago, yazeh said:

Heaven forefend 😊 or until we've finished Quin 😜

As long as you have your priorities straight!

[yazeh]

1 minute ago, LizEF said:

As long as you have your priorities straight!

I couldn't resist 

[inkstainedruth]

1 hour ago, PJohnP said:

 

<deep chuckle>

 

Living in the US Southwest now, I can hang up a pair of wet jeans and they fully dry overnight.  When I tell this to my friends in the UK or places like Vancouver in Canada, there is often a short silence followed by a prolonged hissing and sighing sound that emanates from between teeth.

 

Having lived in very high humidity locations such as near the Delaware River where paperback book covers would completely curl up in the summer months, I like low humidity.  I just need to buy more moisturiser (a guy's next-to-best friend here).  This is a small thing compared with the rising damp I experienced when living in the UK.  <quirky smile>

 

 

 

I'll look forward to your next experiments !

 

John P.

There was a guy in some of my night classes when I was in college who had moved back to Connecticut from someplace in Arizona.  He said his wife couldn't stand how dry it was out there, and was much happier in a more balance/more humid climate.  But he was going bananas because his allergies had pretty much gone into overdrive....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[LizEF]

31 minutes ago, yazeh said:

I couldn't resist 

[LizEF]

23 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

But he was going bananas because his allergies had pretty much gone into overdrive....

I don't have allergies, but every time I think about moving to somewhere humid, I just look at the insects.  Holy cow, people!  Cow-sized insects!   Where I live, there are no cat or dog fleas.  Yes, that's right, you only need a flea and tick collar if you take your pet into the woods where there might be ticks.  There are no fleas, at all (of the kind that live on dogs and cats).  It's kitty heaven.  And I can go outside at dusk without instantly being smothered in mosquitos (we have those, just not nearly as many).

[InesF]

On 10/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, LizEF said:

Around here, you leave a package of anything open for 2 hours and it's a rock forevermore.  I keep a small piece of bread in my Rolaids so they don't break my teeth...  (And have to replace it now and then as I don't use them that often and after a while, they and the bread are rocks...)

WOW! That reads as thrilling as the story of our magical journey group!  

 

On 10/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, LizEF said:

How long do you suppose the paper should stay over the salt solution?  And should it be in some container or open to the air?  I could always put the paper on a rack over the solution and all of it inside the microwave - I often use the microwave for short-term storing of things I don't want to dry out.

A single sheet of paper my reach full equilibrium within two days. More bulky things (such as cookies) may require a full week. And yes, please store both, salt solution and paper, inside a sealed container (such as the usual plastic food containers). If your microwave is fully sealed (is it?) it may fit as well.

 

On 10/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, LizEF said:

It will probably be a couple of weeks before I even start on these experiments (and @dipper's from the other thread), but I'll get to them.

You are always welcome, @LizEF! Take your time, there is no need for hurry.

I'm looking forward to the outcome of this experiment as I'm looking forward to each Tuesdays Ink & Magic story!   

[LizEF]

5 hours ago, InesF said:

WOW! That reads as thrilling as the story of our magical journey group!  

 

5 hours ago, InesF said:

A single sheet of paper my reach full equilibrium within two days. More bulky things (such as cookies) may require a full week. And yes, please store both, salt solution and paper, inside a sealed container (such as the usual plastic food containers). If your microwave is fully sealed (is it?) it may fit as well.

Got it!  I have some nesting short squarish Rubbermaid containers that may be large enough to include the solution and a sheet of paper.

 

5 hours ago, InesF said:

You are always welcome, @LizEF! Take your time, there is no need for hurry.

I'm looking forward to the outcome of this experiment as I'm looking forward to each Tuesdays Ink & Magic story!   

[PJohnP]

On 10/13/2023 at 12:11 PM, inkstainedruth said:

There was a guy in some of my night classes when I was in college who had moved back to Connecticut from someplace in Arizona.  He said his wife couldn't stand how dry it was out there, and was much happier in a more balance/more humid climate.  But he was going bananas because his allergies had pretty much gone into overdrive....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

Sadly, allergies out here in NM are quite evident.  Between juniper pollen in the first bloom of spring through chamisa pollen in the autumn allergies are pretty stark...  Sub-alpine conditions mean drier air, but (thank goodness) it's not desert air.

 

Living here isn't such a terrible fate - the autumn light and trees here near and in the mountains are glorious in so many ways.  Sometimes the colours even match the inks we discuss !

 

 

John P.

 

.

[LizEF]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:49 AM, InesF said:

maybe you can do the experiment with equilibrated paper stored over saturated sodium chloride (salt) solution, which should have an a_W of 0.6 and with paper freshly put out from a 15 minutes stay in the oven (110°C) with an expected a_W of 0.05 (for one or two minutes, before starting to suck water out from the air).

 

On 10/15/2023 at 2:09 AM, InesF said:

A single sheet of paper my reach full equilibrium within two days. More bulky things (such as cookies) may require a full week. And yes, please store both, salt solution and paper, inside a sealed container (such as the usual plastic food containers).

 

@InesF, I'm getting ready to do this experiment.  I have a large Rubbermaid container and a smaller one that will fit inside it.  My thought is to fill the small one with rice or some such (to weigh it down and stabilize it) and the larger one part way with salt water, but lower than the top of the inner container.  Then I can lay a sheet of paper atop the inner container and seal up the larger container and leave it for a few days.  I can get it all ready, cook my sheet of paper, then move it straight from the oven to the container.

 

My only question remaining, I think, is the salt solution.  A bit of googling suggests 40-50g / 100 mL of water and says to use distilled water.  Do I have to find a source for pure NaCl?  Or is table salt good enough?  (In the US, it often Iodine in it, and I have no idea how pure it is.  I can get it without the Iodine - may even have some of that, will have to check - don't use salt much.  Just looked online at the most popular brand - it has dextrose in it.  What the heck!? Huh, to keep the potassium iodide from oxidizing and evaporating. Go figure.  It also has calcium silicate "to prevent clumping")

 

Any thoughts on how I avoid evaporation & condensation dripping all over my page - or do you think that won't be an issue?  I have an unfinished basement that stays pretty cool, especially in winter.  I doubt its temperature fluctuates much, though I've never measured it.  The main house temp doesn't change much - maybe 5 degrees - unless the heat goes out, which is extremely rare.

 

Thanks for your help!

[yazeh]

@LizEF looking forward to the results

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

@LizEF looking forward to the results

[InesF]

On 12/6/2023 at 10:57 PM, LizEF said:

@InesF, I'm getting ready to do this experiment.  I have a large Rubbermaid container and a smaller one that will fit inside it.  My thought is to fill the small one with rice or some such (to weigh it down and stabilize it) and the larger one part way with salt water, but lower than the top of the inner container.  Then I can lay a sheet of paper atop the inner container and seal up the larger container and leave it for a few days.  I can get it all ready, cook my sheet of paper, then move it straight from the oven to the container.

 

My only question remaining, I think, is the salt solution.  A bit of googling suggests 40-50g / 100 mL of water and says to use distilled water.  Do I have to find a source for pure NaCl?  Or is table salt good enough?  (In the US, it often Iodine in it, and I have no idea how pure it is.  I can get it without the Iodine - may even have some of that, will have to check - don't use salt much.  Just looked online at the most popular brand - it has dextrose in it.  What the heck!? Huh, to keep the potassium iodide from oxidizing and evaporating. Go figure.  It also has calcium silicate "to prevent clumping")

 

Any thoughts on how I avoid evaporation & condensation dripping all over my page - or do you think that won't be an issue?  I have an unfinished basement that stays pretty cool, especially in winter.  I doubt its temperature fluctuates much, though I've never measured it.  The main house temp doesn't change much - maybe 5 degrees - unless the heat goes out, which is extremely rare.

 

Thanks for your help!

Hi @LizEF. To avoid the inner, smaller container swimming around, you may fill it with some stones or sand, just enough to touch the bottom of the bigger.

The usual kitchen salt and tap water are good enough. The small impurities will not do so much difference. Some dextrose is not optimal (sounds really grazy to mix it with salt), as long as it is less than 5%, I would guess, it doesn't matter.

As long as there are no bigger temperature changes over the day, not much water will condense. The air inside the container will equilibrate around 60% rH, means you will need a sudden temperature drop of about 15°C to cause condensation. When you use the inner container with enough weight to not touch the top lid of the outer, you can fold or rol the paper so that it fits into the inner container.

The usual lid of such food containers is good enough to keep the inside air humidity almost constant.

 

Looking forward to the outcome!  👩‍🔬

[LizEF]

6 hours ago, InesF said:

Hi @LizEF. To avoid the inner, smaller container swimming around, you may fill it with some stones or sand, just enough to touch the bottom of the bigger.

The usual kitchen salt and tap water are good enough. The small impurities will not do so much difference. Some dextrose is not optimal (sounds really grazy to mix it with salt), as long as it is less than 5%, I would guess, it doesn't matter.

As long as there are no bigger temperature changes over the day, not much water will condense. The air inside the container will equilibrate around 60% rH, means you will need a sudden temperature drop of about 15°C to cause condensation. When you use the inner container with enough weight to not touch the top lid of the outer, you can fold or rol the paper so that it fits into the inner container.

The usual lid of such food containers is good enough to keep the inside air humidity almost constant.

 

Looking forward to the outcome!  👩‍🔬

Thank you!  Will get started next week.

 

All the best!

[LizEF]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:49 AM, InesF said:

The ink behaviour remains a partial mystery. @LizEF, maybe you can do the experiment with equilibrated paper stored over saturated sodium chloride (salt) solution, which should have an a_W of 0.6 and with paper freshly put out from a 15 minutes stay in the oven (110°C) with an expected a_W of 0.05 (for one or two minutes, before starting to suck water out from the air).

My paper has been baked and is now in a sealed container with the saline solution at the bottom.  I'll do some tests on Thursday, assuming nothing stops me.

[InesF]

On 1/1/2024 at 10:08 PM, LizEF said:

My paper has been baked and is now in a sealed container with the saline solution at the bottom.  I'll do some tests on Thursday, assuming nothing stops me.

You may store the paper inside the constant rH container for as long as you like. After one day or so the paper will be and will stay equilibrated. Make sure (and control) that the solution is saturated with a bit of undissolved salt at the bottom of the liquid.