Greedy nib meisters?

[A Smug Dill]

8 minutes ago, PenchantRx said:

for all I know OP could be making his story up for reasons not known to us.  But I'm leaning toward believing it…

 

I believe his story. I also believe he feels belittled or offended by the lack of reply to a prospective customer, who is figuratively knocking on the doors of nibmeisters.

 

31 minutes ago, PenchantRx said:

… based on my own experiences, and I don't think a rational person would take the time to complain about non-responses if that wasn't true.

 

But understanding, empathy, and sympathy are not all the same thing logically and/or indivisibly clumped together. I can understand and empathise with the frustration, but that doesn't automatically mean sympathy on my part is warranted.

 

44 minutes ago, PenchantRx said:

And you seem to be missing OP's point that most or all of these nibmeisters are ignoring his requests entirely.

 

If his “point” of starting this thread was to rouse sympathy for his woes — which may or may not be the case, and as someone ”on the spectrum”, I'm often a poor judge of someone else's motivations and/or state of mind — then his making the leap to attribute the nibmeisters' lack of observable response to their ”greed”, perhaps to assuage his feelings of affront (as opposed to trying to explore and understand the why from a present position of not knowing, or to troubleshoot and remedy his unfortunate situation) and vent, is what is (by remaining for everyone, including newcomers and repeat visitors to this thread, to read) continuing to snuff out that sympathy from many others of his fellows in the hobbyist community and peers who are strangers, not friends, to him.

[txomsy]

Amen.

 

I think the whole point of most of the answers was pretty clear: we all have expectations and grow frustrated when these are not met, and as such, we all (or most) understand the feeling and even sympathize with it.

 

But feelings should not be confused with good common sense.

 

This is an international forum, and for many of us our experiences are international too (we contact other users, sellers, customer, friends, whatever overseas through the Net). And good old common sense tells us that while we all have expectations, we do not all have the same expectations nor the same cultural backgrounds or ways to react and interact.

 

What I think most of us are trying to point is that one cannot generalize such a strong assertion lightly. What may be sensible at one place or for one person or under some circumstances will not be in a different situation. And without more in depth knowledge it is at the very least risky, and very likely offensive, to prejudge without knowledge and, worse, to generalize.

 

Back to feelings: I am also aware there are those (people, cultures) who think customer is king, etc... without discussing any merits, what it is clear to me is that in most cultures (that I know of), prejudgement, sentencing without knowledge and generalization, are not felt as pleasant (yeah, I know of mobs, but wouldn't call that a majority culture).

 

That was the other point being made: we all understand anyone wanting to air their frustration and let it all out (we all feel the urge some time), but in so doing, most of us would appreciate if certain respect was still shown to the other, silent, party. There is a line between laying out the grounds of your frustration and accusing an absent (specially a silent) party of wrong intentions.

 

Quoting the rosy wise old bards "Careful with that axe, Eugene" (Pink Floyd).

[Bill Wood]

On 8/1/2023 at 3:49 AM, Waltz For Zizi said:

Or you can learn it to do it yourself. I did it because in my country there is only one person that does nib work and pen repair that I know of and my experience with him with a pen was horrible. Zero communication, he even sent my pen back half repaired without even a simple notice. I don't know the prices in other places but he is asking 50$ for a nib grind, so i did the sensible thing and bought myself a 5$ grinding pads set and now I do my own architects, italics/stubs, obliques. I couldn't be happier with my own work.

Exactly as I do. I usually do medium stubs from Jowo nibs. If it’s gold nib I pass, but steel no problem. 

[Baka1969]

Some people are just poor business people. Just because someone may posses a skill does not mean they should make a business out of it. Especially on their own without a partner that understands the professional side of it. 

 

Those that don't understand the customer service side of things ultimately end up failing. 

 

I find zero correlation between where a person hails from and how they conduct business. Some people are just better at it than others. 

 

Excellent communication and being truthful about one's skill set and explaining a realistic expectation of the business' goals and what it can or cannot deliver are just as important as the service provided. Sometimes even more so. 

[Karmachanic]

17 hours ago, Bill Wood said:

Exactly as I do. I usually do medium stubs from Jowo nibs. If it’s gold nib I pass, but steel no problem. 

 

Just to note that when grinding a nib it is neither the steel or gold that is ground, but the so called iridium tipping.

[VacNut]

Since our communications can travel at the speed of light and we can just about have anything delivered to our doorstep in days - if not within the hour, we have lost our perspective on timeliness. 

I find that rather ironic since the hobby we all choose to partake in has its roots in letter writing and mail delivery, which used to take weeks if not months.

 

I do not know the reasons why the nibmeisters did not reply to the inquiry. As noted by others many of these people love their work as a hobby, rather than as an occupation. Given the time, years of expertise, and the materials necessary to adjust nibs, I would be surprised if anyone could make a decent living being a nibmeister. We are fortunate there are people who love the hobby enough to help others with repairs.

 

I collect celluloid pens. Repairs in celluloid can take months for the weld to set and cure. If the pen is 90 years old, I can wait a bit for the repair or the response.

 

chill…..

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Craft's men should get paid for their craft.

Then tools he has to have bought or re-purposed tools for nib grinding.

I don't have a problem with my guy, who has repaired many of my pens, only grinding one of my nibs......but a craftsman should be paid fairly.

 

Richard Binder, a one time great now retired, sent two to ruin cheap pens with his full nib grinding set.

Through the years, many have confessed to having ruined a few cheap nibs learning how.

 

So the OP could buy stuff to grind (there are levels....buff sticks are a start_) , and a few cheap nibs to practice on.

 

I lucked out being in Germany where the '50-70 era nibs were almost all already stubbed, and had some flair flex, that I didn't have to do anything, I had great nibs.

[Baka1969]

8 hours ago, VacNut said:

Since our communications can travel at the speed of light and we can just about have anything delivered to our doorstep in days - if not within the hour, we have lost our perspective on timeliness. 

I find that rather ironic since the hobby we all choose to partake in has its roots in letter writing and mail delivery, which used to take weeks if not months.

 

I do not know the reasons why the nibmeisters did not reply to the inquiry. As noted by others many of these people love their work as a hobby, rather than as an occupation. Given the time, years of expertise, and the materials necessary to adjust nibs, I would be surprised if anyone could make a decent living being a nibmeister. We are fortunate there are people who love the hobby enough to help others with repairs.

 

I collect celluloid pens. Repairs in celluloid can take months for the weld to set and cure. If the pen is 90 years old, I can wait a bit for the repair or the response.

 

chill…..

 

 

Having a unique skill set does not give one permission to have poor customer service. Nor is it a qualified excuse. The only time I accept a less than stellar bedside manner is a doctor that can perform lifesaving treatment. 

[VacNut]

3 hours ago, Baka1969 said:

 

Having a unique skill set does not give one permission to have poor customer service. Nor is it a qualified excuse. The only time I accept a less than stellar bedside manner is a doctor that can perform lifesaving treatment. 

There are no trade schools or unions that train nibmeisters. It is all learned on the job or by mentorship. It is a very personal endeavor. That said, I agree with the opinion that not all craftsman in this hobby are qualified.( I have several pen examples that are just shocking!)

 

We do not know why the communications were unanswered. As a part-time hobby, I give them the benefit of the doubt. As they may be on vacation or are busy with their full-time jobs.

 

I personally do not expect a “qualified” excuse that is acceptable to me under these circumstances, but each their own.

 

I personally expect the doctor with the life-saving treatment to have a stellar bedside manner.

[txomsy]

I expect each to do their work properly. Manners are a social convention that changes widely from person to person, across places, cultures, etc...

 

I do remember when doctors were above Human and you would dress special to visit them as a show of respect. Or when police would beat you heavily if they felt you deserved it. And I have seen doctors with no manners that would be the best in their field, and police that would sound apologetic and treat you humbly. All of this without moving. So I have learnt to accept that people comes in all manners and value workers by what most matters to me when I deal with people in their role as professionals: by the results of their work.

 

Yeah, education is a worthy goal and the World might be much better, but while we reach it, I just do with what there is.

[Karmachanic]

15 hours ago, VacNut said:

I personally expect

 

Expectation, more often than not, leads to disappointment.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Look to see who is good. Pull a number and wait.

Back when the two Mikes were working, for one  had an over three month or much more waiting list.

 

There are enough good nib meisters in the US, One can find a list of them if one looks on the com.

One of them in England is expensive and has a waiting list. There is a very good one in Spain.

My repairman  Francis, in Belgium, was also the nibmester at Conid fountain pen, which he helped design, so i have someone good for both.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

21 hours ago, VacNut said:

I personally expect the doctor with the life-saving treatment to have a stellar bedside manner.

 

Unfortunately my experience with doctors has been counter to those expectations. I had a family member go through some very serious health issues and the doctors we interacted with were often egotists and just overall insensitive people. Helping people seems to be a side benefit to the money and the "prestige" from the profession. It's a wonderful feeling when a medical professional uses your dying family member as an exhibition/lesson for trainees. But alas that's a topic for a different forum.

 

Back to the topic on hand, standards for what is considered good business/customer service changes over time. I don't think anyone would be happy with a business that only took payment by check over mail? By the same token, timely communication is a modern standard for most businesses these days. It's not a legal obligation and everyone is free to run their work as they see fit, but they should not be surprised if they see their business suffer if they offer subpar service.

 

I guess this might be an issue because of how niche this hobby is. There are probably only a few dozen (if that) reputable nibmeisters out there, and the demand for nibwork far out paces the supply so they can set any price they want and offer any level of support they see fit (even if it is subpar). Personally I've only had good experiences with the one nibmeister I sent work to but I think the rarity of good nibmeisters is definitely a problem.

[dftr]

IF you run into one A-hole, maybe you were unlucky... but if you run into five in a row, maybe you should ask if you're the A-hole...

 

 

[FarmBoy]

Five in a row and it’s likely two cheeks and a hole.