Platinum Chou Kuro Black: "Distilled water recommended..."

[sketchstack]

re: Platinum's recommendation to use distilled water to clean your pen of their new pigmented Chou Kuro ink

 

In the attached comparison, I've used a syringe to add a drop of the new Platinum Chou Kuro Black to a pools of tap and distilled water. The top two samples in each column are the same; the middle row is where I used a paper towel to swab up much of the water. The paper is Tomoe River. 

 

I think it's fairly obvious that there is indeed something different going on when tap water is used vs. distilled. The pigment in the tap water appears to be clumpy.

 

Is this a mostly cosmetic phenomenon? I don't know --but it's enough for me to heed Platinum's warnings. 

 

 

 

[lapis]

I myself don't see any really big difference between the two columns of images. Of course, distilled (or ion-exchange "filtered") water is always better, e.g. to eliminate or at least reduce precipitation and/or increase solubility due to to calcium content in tap water which varies exceedingly depending on your location. IMO it is nice that they say we should do so, but at the same time maybe a bit superfluous. I think almost all of us take that into consideration off hand.

[sketchstack]

Quote

 IMO it is nice that they say we should do so, but at the same time maybe a bit superfluous. 

 

I own or have owned dozens of fountain pen inks and this is the first time I've ever seen a manufacturer's warning regarding the type of water used to clean the pen. What's more, is they actually included a bottle of distilled water with purchase to drive the point home. That is unprecedented. 

 

The lengths Platinum goes to educate the end user on this matter, in conjunction with the clumped pigment in the non-distilled samples I've attached, leads me to believe it's a warning worth heeding vs merely a "best practice". 

[Karmachanic]

I'm going to avoid this potential problem by not purchasing the ink.

[lapis]

40 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

I'm going to avoid this potential problem by not purchasing the ink.

Ahhh.... that's a good one. BTW I've never had any problem, either with any Platinum ink itself or with washing out same with tap water (first) and then with distilled water (finally). I also use the same (filtered) water for my tea every day. Thusly, I continue to purchase both commodities.

[yazeh]

ASE USE PURIFIED WATER, DO NOT USE TAP WATER WHEN CLEANING "CHOU-KURO" INK.

 

This ink stands out because the pigment particles react with and adhere to the mineral components in the paper. Tap water typically contains minerals, and if a fountain pen is cleaned using tap water, the ink particles inside the pen nib that were not washed away may adhere to the minerals and potentially affect ink flow.

 

https://www.platinum-pen.co.jp/common/img/pdf/chokoku_web(english).pdf

 

[arcfide]

I see a pretty distinct difference myself between the two samples. I already found that Platinum Carbon Ink was more apt to stick to the feed/nib than other inks, and this one looks like it can do that with tap water especially. 

 

IMO, I'm likely to pick up this ink simply because I like the idea of what Platinum is doing, and also because I want to support ink makers pushing the boundaries like this. It looks like a really good ink all things considered. 

[AceNinja]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:08 PM, sketchstack said:

 

Interesting, the tap water with Chou kuro, it seems like a coagulation effect going on.  Coagulation is a term / process used in raw water treatment, where a certain chemical is added to the water, so that the pre-existing micro-particles/solids (which are too small to be filtered by regular filter) binds with it, to form a larger solid clump, which is heavier and settles down to bottom of water tank.

 

Which means if you flush your chou kuro filled pen with tap water, the ink can forms into larger chunks like OP's picture, inside the feed.  I imagine it'll clog the feed and will be difficult to remove afterwards.

[Lithium466]

That sums up some initial attempts at making diesel engine oil...coagulate soot so it can get filtered better. Modern oil relies more on dispersant (and some kind of "encapsulation") I believe, the opposite approach.

 

I got rid of my regular Carbon black yesterday, but I heard people from my local pen club saying it was doing the same thing as Chou Kuro, to a lesser extent. Not sure that's really noticeable, or that would have been discussed here already.

[arcfide]

Inky Rocks has put out a Youtube video which both allays any fears one might have as to the cleanup of the pen, but also highlights rather convincingly why you shouldn't use water with high mineral content:

 

 

This replicates and expands the results above. 

 

Also, Platinum clearly didn't want to be outdone when it comes to having the blackest of black inks.  

 

[sketchstack]

5 hours ago, arcfide said:

Also, Platinum clearly didn't want to be outdone when it comes to having the blackest of black inks.  

 

 

What's curious, and a testament to Platinum's marketing influence perhaps, is how I keep seeing social media chatter claiming that Chou Kuro is the darkest ink on the market. 

 

Yet it's not and further I don't think Platinum has made that claim. Platinum says this is their darkest ink and they compare it exclusively to their own Carbon and regular dye black ink. (And they're wise to do so because they will not sue themselves for libel or misrepresentation ...)

 

In my experience so far, for example, there are some papers where Iroshiziku Take-Sumi appears as dark or darker when dry. Noodler's Black and Noodler's Heart of Darkness are also very respectable in this regard.

 

Yes, this new Chou Kuro is indeed quite dark. But again, Platinum compares it to their own Carbon which is shiny and reflects light. (Frankly I don't know why people say Carbon is so dark --its very shiny compared to almost all black inks on the market, dye or pigment.)

 

My summary: 

• Chou Kuro is Platinum's darkest black ink
• Chou Kuro is likely the darkest pigment black on the market, almost certainly versus the most widely available (Platinum Carbon, Sailor Kuwa-guro)
• Chou Kuro is not the darkest black ink on the market, esp. when compared to dye inks and using a variety of stationary as a test bed. 

 

 

[arcfide]

2 hours ago, sketchstack said:

Yes, this new Chou Kuro is indeed quite dark. But again, Platinum compares it to their own Carbon which is shiny and reflects light. (Frankly I don't know why people say Carbon is so dark --its very shiny compared to almost all black inks on the market, dye or pigment.)

 

I think it would be educational if you were able to do a comparison against these other blacks and post something if you were so inclined. People said that Noodler's Black was dark, but it is distinctly the absolute lightest and least black of all the blacks I have ever tried. I didn't give Heart of Darkness a try partly because of that. HoD also seems to have a very warm hue compared to the carbon black inks. Take Sumi does indeed have the ability to appear relatively dark, but not anywhere close to as dark as what I see from the photos of Chou Kuro out of a Pilot Parallel 6mm, for instance. 

 

I've always found that most black inks, when used in fine nibs that are reasonably wet, appear to be relatively dark, and they distinguish themselves in such cases more by their other qualities (such as gloss/matte or warmth). But when put into wide 1.5mm stubs or the like, that may or may not be dry, I see distinct differences, especially on paper that can handle such pens without bleed. I want to pick some of this ink up for testing, but I fully expect it to be competitive with Montblanc Permanent Black and most of the other very black inks. 

 

For my own personal tests, I fully separate out shine from darkness. A shiny ink is no less dark in my ratings than a matte ink. I judge the ink's darkness solely on the color absent any reflective element. Thus, I think people consider Platinum and Sailor carbon inks as lighter than I count them because they sheen so reflectively. Likewise, the matte dark inks like those from Jacques Herbin I don't give extra points for darkness just because they don't reflect light. 

[yazeh]

@arcfidethanks for posting the video. Very informative and well done. I once was sketching on absorbent paper, with both Carbon Black and Kiwa-guro  (Fabriano sketchbook). When I used a bit of Herbin Perle noire, it looked definitely "blacker" and shinier in comparison. Ironically, I still prefer the former for sketching, to the latter. They give a more pencil like feel and their waterproof 

 

@sketchstack unless you do a side by side test, you won't see a difference. I once attempted to compare 4 of Noodler's back inks. The unobtainable Raven Black, Heart of Darkness, X- Feather and Polar Black. It was so close at one point I didn't know which was which. If memory serves me right Polar Black was the most intense Black. It was like writing with tar. However, I shudder writing with 1.5 mm stub nib with this ink.

 

 

 

[arcfide]

Here's another review:

 

 

[sketchstack]

On 7/14/2023 at 11:02 PM, arcfide said:

 

I think it would be educational if you were able to do a comparison against these other blacks and post something if you were so inclined. ...

 

Here's a quick comparison of swabbed black inks. One could argue that this is not the best because thickly-applied inks aren't necessarily indicative to their real-world performance. 

 

That said I'll admit that Chou Kuro does still rise above the rest as being the darkest. Is it worth double the price or more compared to all of those other inks? That's up to the individual. I will maintain that Take-Sumi deserves more credit for being a dark black ink save for the red sheen. (I'm kicking myself for not having included J. Herbin Pearle Noir here...not to mention the dozen other black inks on the market.)

 

 

 

[arcfide]

@sketchstack Thanks for the video!

 

Under the lighting conditions, it really shows the distinctive qualities of each of the inks, and I agree that heavy swabs don't always do the best to show off how an ink will perform in your pen. It would be interesting to see if the blackness of Chou Kuro is entirely due to its matte finish and lack of reflective sheen or if it is something else. 

 

I also consider Take-sumi one of my favorite black inks, though now that you point it out, it's often a favorite black ink, but not often referenced when people are looking for the blackest of black. 

 

My tests of Perle Noir and Noir Abyssal from Herbin has them as relatively matte inks, which I think would make for a good comparison against Chou Kuro, since at the very least, the matteness of the inks is likely to improve the perceived blackness of the inks, even if the pigments aren't quite the same. In actual practice, the wet and flowing nature of Noir Abyssal made for a very black ink in the pen as well as in the swabs when I tested it with my pens. 

 

It's interesting that in Platinum's own literature, they rate their own dye ink as darker than Carbon ink. In practice, the relative dryness of the dyestuff black vs. the wetness of Carbon ink I think plays a bigger role in making people perceive Carbon ink as more black in practice. However, Platinum does a good job of highlighting the difference between darkness and color tone in that same literature, which I appreciate. 

[yazeh]

@arcfide & @sketchstackthanks for posting your videos. I'm not sure if what translate into swabs translates into writing. Ideally one has to write and compare writings. When I did my four black Noodler's comparaison. I did a poll and no one could see a difference between them. Frankly, I myself were at times stomped, and only discerning the inks through their qualities, when writing. 
I wonder if writing with a fine nib will make a discernible difference. I guess probably the difference with start showing with broad nibs. But then I might be wrong

 

[SpecTP]

looking forward to trying out this ink. I'm hoping some will be available sooner at the DC Pen Show

[TSherbs]

On 7/16/2023 at 4:04 PM, sketchstack said:

 

That said I'll admit that Chou Kuro does still rise above the rest as being the darkest. Is it worth double the price or more compared to all of those other inks?

 

Very black, but not worth $60 per bottle to me. 

 

[fireant]

On 7/14/2023 at 3:07 PM, arcfide said:

Inky Rocks has put out a Youtube video which both allays any fears one might have as to the cleanup of the pen, but also highlights rather convincingly why you shouldn't use water with high mineral content:

 

 

This replicates and expands the results above. 

 

Also, Platinum clearly didn't want to be outdone when it comes to having the blackest of black inks.  

 

 

I love her videos.