Pelikan pricing

[Major_Tom]

Attempted recently to dechifre the pricing policy of Pelikan and how it has evolved over the years. Thanks to the work done by Dominic Rothemel, his pretty dense archive of catalogues allowed me to note the recommended retail prices of several regular production models and see how the have changed over the last 30 years

 

For 1992, the reference year here, the € value is an estimate of mine based on the then ration of the DM with the US$ and the then power that money had. For 2023, in the absence of RRP from Pelikan, I used the prices posted by Appelboom for the flock of the birds in regular production today

 

 

Prices are - to no surprise - going upwards. Distances in between the lines of products are well respected and Pelikan does a good job in maintaining the value of its products, something reflected as well in the aftermarket. The Toledos keep on maintaining value, in comparison to M800, the M1000 though loses value (%Δ) comparing to the flagship M800.

 

For collectors/users, such pens prove to be a significant store of value, as they're able to carry - not to say, increase - their value over time and space. Collectors pieces and limited editions are not included, as the scarcity characteristics they have will distort this table.

 

If you find it useful, I may revert in the future with a part 2, reviewing the prices of certain pens over eBay that have been my focus in the last 10 years

 

[Major_Tom]

See as well the relative pricing, taking as basis the M800

 

 

M700s, the most accessible Toledo has gained value over the more expensive M900 that drops, an indication perhaps of the popularitry these models have had in the market over the years

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well I'm glad I buy mostly used pens.....outside a couple regular and LE 200's....and three on sale good pens.

 

If I bought new pens...I'd only have one....my P-75, bought new in '70-71.

That one and matching ball point cost a fortune in silver money. $22 for the fountain pen and a whole $18 for the thin P-75 'ballpoint'  with a MP cartridge.

I'd still be a One Man, one unused pen, locked up in my wife's Jewelry prison. 

 

When I got back to fountain pens after a Moses in the ball point desert, even a middle class pen and the 400 is more than that, frightened my wallet into hiding.

 

One can not join The Pen of the Week in the Mail Club with new pens.

 

[Major_Tom]

On 3/10/2023 at 9:20 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Well I'm glad I buy mostly used pens.....outside a couple regular and LE 200's....and three on sale good pens.

 

If I bought new pens...I'd only have one....my P-75, bought new in '70-71.

That one and matching ball point cost a fortune in silver money. $22 for the fountain pen and a whole $18 for the thin P-75 'ballpoint'  with a MP cartridge.

I'd still be a One Man, one unused pen, locked up in my wife's Jewelry prison. 

 

When I got back to fountain pens after a Moses in the ball point desert, even a middle class pen and the 400 is more than that, frightened my wallet into hiding.

 

One can not join The Pen of the Week in the Mail Club with new pens.

 

 Used, second-hand or "pre-owned" pens, especially for Pelikans, make sense. Once a feature goes out of production (say, two chicks), all of a sudden such items are difficult to find and become scarce. On eBay there are from time to time generous offers for items that are phased out and also when it comes to items that really perform better (p/f or EN nibs) than the new ones, prices go seriously up

 

I beleive that for a collector/user that's not interested in trading pens for living, this can be a nice way to store and transfer value especially nowadays in high inflation times

[Bo Bo Olson]

I wasn't looking for investment.....just satisfying my greed addiction of pretty pens.

 

Unfortunately I chased bottom feeders more than Pelikan until I cracked the €/$70 psychological border back 12-13 years ago...was buying cheap used pen for two-three years. No name pen with no name box, and paper....'Erstklassiger (first class)fountain pen.

It was my first BCHR open and the still the sharpest chasing.

 

 

Back then, € 60 was the cost of a 140; €70 for a 400.

The great Geha 790 €15-19....can still be had now for €60. Still the best buy for German stubbed semi-flex. Torpedo was so in, Swan Torpedo, the Pelikan 120-140, Geha 790/760 MB 146/9 and a few other pens.

Geha fought Pelikan, in both came from Hanover. The 790 matches the 400. Though if one nit picks the Geha semi-flex nib is a slight tad springier, in their nibs were made by Degussa.

I imagine if I hadn't bragged that pen so often over the decade +. it might still be going for €25. A passed Spanish  Lady asked me not to, in I was driving up the price....but I couldn't help spreading the good news.

 

Now if one hunts in the auction section of German Ebay...€90-120 for a '50's 400-400nn....140 for about the same but I saw for 10 less last year the last time I looked.

 

The real problem is/was the constant inflation before this 'War' inflation in the States.

There is a well established lie that 3% inflation is 'good'! That's only 30% a decade. 15 years =45% and that was before the recent inflation bash.

 

I was and still recommend getting a €100 '50's Pelikan 400, but it appeared  in the States everyone was ok with paying $285 for the 'same' pen; instead of going through any minutes of trouble with German Ebay.**  $185 is still a lot of money....actually €100 still is, come down to it.

 

Buying Now makes you pay 2-2 1/2 that, for lazy impatience in Germany the buy now sellers peg their prices to the US market knowing they can get that from Americans. (I am one so can say what I wish about us.)

 

Even one decade before now shows such a jump in prices. Esterbrook for $15...what now $45-50?

Lots of Sheaffers were going for $25-35 in the States way back in the when....but it cost near that to mail from the States, so I chased German market.

 

**I even offered cheat sheets. 4-5 folks used it and my look see and were happy.

 

[mr T.]

On 3/9/2023 at 8:33 PM, Major_Tom said:

Prices are - to no surprise - going upwards. Distances in between the lines of products are well respected and Pelikan does a good job in maintaining the value of its products, something reflected as well in the aftermarket. The Toledos keep on maintaining value, in comparison to M800, the M1000 though loses value (%Δ) comparing to the flagship M800.

It could be interesting to compare the M800 with the price development of lower end pens like the Pelikano. 

[The Elevator]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:56 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

There is a well established lie that 3% inflation is 'good'! That's only 30% a decade. 15 years =45% and that was before the recent inflation bash

Technically not completely accurate here, due to compounding effect, but it’s a decent place to start. 

 

A more comprehensive calculation method for 10 years would look like 

 

(1.03)^10

which comes out to

 

1.344, which indicates a change of 34.4%
 

For 15 years, the calculation is

 

1.03^15 = 1.558, a change of 55.8%
 

If we take the entire graphical analysis for the 35 years passed since 1988, 

 

1.03^35 = 2.814, a change of 181% against the 1988 currency base. 
 

According to a quick internet search, average inflation (United States, not Germany) since ‘88 is actually 2.6%, leading to a 145.5% increase compared to the 1988 currency base. 

I also crunched some numbers for Germany, and came up with a 102.4% total inflation compounded in since 1988. 

 

This doesn’t quite explain everything in the massive 2-3x price increases over the past 10-15 years, but it does at least close the discrepancy a little bit. I think the remainder can probably be chalked up to gasoline price increases, which affect manufacturing as well as shipping, and increased regulatory red tape in the international markets.
 

There could also be a component of increased demand among a curious generation of younger fountain pen users, as a few friends I know are showing interest. However, that is all speculation, since there are not many statistics on the matter. 

 

There could also be a component of decreasing supply, since vintage pens are no longer made and inevitably some nice old Esterbrooks (for example) will get decommissioned and salvaged for repair parts. This probably doesn’t apply to Pelikan, but in some cases it might have a secondary effect on the statistics; I don’t know that much.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Nice post....deeper than the beer philosophy numerology I tend to use and have used for 50 years........wow.....that's an unexpected  number....I think I got to go drink some beer. 

 

 

 

[Mercian]

59 minutes ago, The Elevator said:

This doesn’t quite explain everything in the massive 2-3x price increases over the past 10-15 years,

I am convinced that, in about 2010/11, Pelikan’s owners decided to slowly* reposition their pens’ prices up to the rarefied heights occupied by Montblanc.

And, if you were them, why wouldn’t you do that?

It increases your income while still operating at the same cost-base, and so it increases your profits.

 

Pelikan’s Souverän pens have certainly been comparable to Montblanc’s Meisterstücks, so it’s not as though they’re trying to charge ‘Mercedes prices’ for ‘Trabant-quality’ products.

 

* This term is a relative one. Some of the price-hikes in individual years have been markedly abrupt when compared to underlying general inflation.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The only new pens I've bought (outside a 1970/71 P-75 that cost a whopping $22.00 new in silver money)  that were not on deep 1/3 or more sale (3 ea), were Pelikan 200's, some three regular and two LE's....which cost some €40-50 (@ €120-30) more than normal 200's €80-90.

 

My used pens were originally bought at flea markets, E-bay and finally in live auctions. Use to be cheaper than Ebay, in one only had to beat the dealer. Now every idiot from Ebay has found computer/phone live Auctions.

 

Had I had to buy them new I'd not have very many pens at all. The P-75 and....I'd still be a One Man, One Pen....one ink man. No...two-three ink man.

 

This inherited pen started my addiction. It lay in my wife's Aunts drawer for a life time, in it is from 1951, and 15 years in the dark of our drawer, until we decided to sell at the flea market for the first time.

I had said, ....... after all they were just worthless old dirty to use obsolete fountain pens.

1 euro for the others, one an smoke gray DJ Esterbrook, that I had heard of (having a '61 metal capped one) ...a few more never heard of, and the pretty one for €5.

I was tasked by my wife to look up what they were worth. So at 20:00 I started looking and at 02:00 I had a small Collection.

.........this is way back when....my locked up in my wife's jewelry jail, P-75 was worth €225...then the € was worth quit a bit more then than the $.

I finally found that 'unknown' Osmia-Faber-Castel 540 for €250.........Wheeeee!!! Various depressions and recessions have lessened the price a bit.

It wasn't until much later I discovered the Osmia had a maxi-semi-flex M nib....I had to invent the term first.

 

All I knew was it wrote in that sopping wet juicy line so beloved by 'noobies' I had just discovered on brand new to me FPN. 

 

Then I became a bottom feeder....€15-20.....and it was quite a long time before I cracked the €30 border and the 50.

I jumped out of my shoes for this €70 one. My first BCHR and still the sharpest of this barley corn style. Easy full Flex nib....against something I'd find out later.

 

So with the price of Pelikan's Edelstein ink having climbed over my magic €20 limit; could well be I won't be buying any 200's unless they re-issue that Bayou one.

[inkstainedruth]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:56 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

I was and still recommend getting a €100 '50's Pelikan 400, but it appeared  in the States everyone was ok with paying $285 for the 'same' pen; instead of going through any minutes of trouble with German Ebay.**  $185 is still a lot of money....actually €100 still is, come down to it.

 

Ironically, when the M405 Anthracite Stresemann came out (to my joy) the US prices were beyond what I could afford.  So went on (American) eBay and found what I wanted from Rolf Thiel at Missing Pens.  He didn't have to charge me VAT because I'm in the US, and I didn't have to pay the US distributor markup (plus, back then eBay wasn't collecting sales tax).  Didn't get QUITE the right nib (in that he didn't have any of the completely rhodium-plated ones in the width I wanted) but that was okay with me.  Ended up ALSO getting an M405 in the Blue-Black (a touch pricier than an M400, but there was just something about how that rhodium plating looked... ).  

Those are still my two most expensive pens, even then -- but JUST affordable, in that it was the one time in my life that I had a pretty good sized discretionary budget.  

Of course, then -- an hour or two after hitting the "buy" button for those two pens, I got the phone call from PayPal, going "Did you know that a charge of [  ] was sent from your account to a vendor in Europe?"  "Why, yes, yes I did know -- but thank you for calling...."  Got off the phone, looked at my husband, and said "OMG -- I really DID spend that much money on ONLY TWO pens!"

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth
 

[Bo Bo Olson]

41 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

I really DID spend that much money on ONLY TWO pens!"

I remember getting a MB Virginia Woolf '''on sale'' for only €450 instead of €750. It was a birthday present from my wife to me.

 

I forgot the small print!!!! Our money. I didn't buy a pen, ink or bit of good to better paper for a good nine months.

 

Eventually I made a buy that set that far in the background. But that was seven name pens. Only took me three months to recover from that.

[strsljen]

I find prices nowdays just bizzare.

I bought M200 in 2016 for 50ish euros. Now is over 100. Same pen, nothing revolutionary different (unless I missed something really significant).

Mario.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Well I've read the new LE some sort of copper, is @€130, down from the €160 I paid for this one.

 

 

 

These two were about €130 it's been a couple years...but LE's cost more.

A few years ago, regular 200's cost €80...then up to 90....so the jump to 100 is not unexpected. I have 7-8 or so 200's counting two W.Germany ones.

LE's, also the Amethyst and the Ruby Star.

To put it bluntly the 200 is the only Pelikan I can afford new, for those prices had I not had classic semi-flex 400/400nn I could have bought them on German Ebay Auction section....and my 500 cost less than that Pastel blue.

 

I would not have even thought about this new copper something 200 had it been €160...at €130 I can dither, once I see it in real life.

[N1003U]

On 4/18/2024 at 7:43 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

I would not have even thought about this new copper something 200 had it been €160...at €130 I can dither, once I see it in real life.

I bought a Copper Rose Gold with a wettish EF nib that is pleasant. The tip is typical Pelikan ballpoint boring, but the steel nib (at least the one on my pen) has just a touch of bounce that makes it fun to use.
 

@sargetalon has some nice pictures of the Copper Rose Gold on his Pelikan’s Perch blog site (scroll back a couple of articles), that I think are pretty close representations to what the pen looks like in real life. If you like other white M200s, and you like copper colors, this one may have you reaching for your wallet.

[senzen]

Ouch, never going to get an M805 but I'm happy with my 13 Pelikans and managed to get 6 Gehas, all except one at around or under $100, all but one used.

 

Ibis.

140.

400.

M100.

MC110.

M205 x5.

M120.

M600.

M605.

 

There are many, many other fabulous fish in the sea at $100 - $150.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Vintage and semi-vintage is the way to go...or Pelikan 200's until some 4-5 years old....better nibs, affordable, and well balanced....used is so, so much more affordable.

One can get 3-4 good used pens for the price of one new one.

Affordable flagships.

[Inkwork]

I bought the M200 new in 2015 on ebay.de for about €75.00, and sometime in 2017 (I think) the reissue of the M120 with green barrel for around €160.00. For the latter I was thinking about buying a gold M400 nib. It cost about €80.00. I didn't do that anyway, but now, about 10 years later, I'm shocked by its price: € 165.00

[Bo Bo Olson]

A 200's nib is a springy regular flex nib...= to the gold '82-97 400 nib...The Celebry steel or gold equal, 381 gold, and small 600, 800's of that era. Have an '89 or so W.Germany 800, are all springy regular flex nibs, no better in gold than steel.

W.Germany be it gold or steel is ...if you have later..91-97...a hair more springy.

 

IMO the tear drop tipped nibs of the 200 should be better than the double ball...cleaner line......................the problem is finding  200's nibs that are older than the 4-5 year ago, when they ruined a grand nib by putting a double ball on the tip, for ball point users unable to learn to hold a fountain pen...What matters is not doing it properly, but this year's bonus.

If you have to buy a nib, might as well be a steel or gold plated 200's nib...which I think is better than gold semi-nail and nail nibs of '98-now Preferably an older one, or just buy an older 200.

 

Fritz in Germany has a nib grinder, perhaps he can regrind a 200's nib to tear drop. Then it would be back to great.