Antique Turquoise vs. J. Herbin Bleu Austral

[InesF]

During optimisation of the colours for the March Challenge, I mixed some turquoise inks. I was in search for an antique looking light blue. My first attempts failed miserably, so I cancelled my moratorium and ordered three inks suspect to be close to the desired colour. While they were in shipping, I tried another mix and, voila, a perfect fit!

One day later the new inks arrived and among them was: voila, another perfect fit!

Haha, the fate of the impatient ink collector! 🙄

 

I'm not unhappy, now I have two antique looking blue inks, one with high and the other with low surface tension, one is my own mixture that cost me ca. 9 € per 50 mL, the other is called Jaques Herbin Bleu Austral. Here is the direct comparison on Kyome notepad paper, 70 gsm:

 

My mixture in this comparison is: 7 parts Waterman inspired blue + 1 part Waterman Brown. The mixture has high surface tension and runs a bit more pale with dry nibs. It outperforms Bleu Austral in shading and is suitable for lower quality paper. A ratio of 6.5 + 1 will be a tic more green and be the perfect doppelgänger to Bleu Austral.

 

No doubt: Bleu Austral is a beautiful colour I don't want to miss, but may only performance very good on Tomoe-River-like paper or with fine and extra fine nibs.

 

In my early attempts I mixed Pelikan 4001 Turquoise with 4001 Pink and received a neutral royal blue with a ratio of 10 + 1 and a purple leaning royal blue with 5 + 1. To my surprise, both these mixtures were significantly more intense than the two inks they were composed of and were also more intense than the original 4001 royal blue.

Learing something new each day - isn't it the reason we are here?

[LizEF]

34 minutes ago, InesF said:

I cancelled my moratorium and ordered three inks suspect to be close to the desired colour. While they were in shipping, I tried another mix and, voila, a perfect fit!

  Isn't this exactly how life is, sometimes?

 

I like the look of the Waterman mix better than the Herbin.   Never would have considered adding brown to turquoise!

 

36 minutes ago, InesF said:

Learing something new each day - isn't it the reason we are here?

Exactly!  Thank you for sharing what you learned. 

[yazeh]

Wow! I cannot discern the difference between the two! Maybe that's what Herbin did, mixing two waterman inks

[LizEF]

44 minutes ago, yazeh said:

 Maybe that's what Herbin did, mixing two waterman inks

[yazeh]

1 minute ago, LizEF said:

and that's how a new conspiracy theory was invented and created a tempest in the fountain pen world

[LizEF]

3 hours ago, yazeh said:

and that's how a new conspiracy theory was invented and created a tempest in the fountain pen world

  The ink is out there...

[InesF]

19 hours ago, LizEF said:

I like the look of the Waterman mix better than the Herbin.   Never would have considered adding brown to turquoise!

 

20 hours ago, InesF said:

Learing something new each day - isn't it the reason we are here?

Exactly!  Thank you for sharing what you learned. 

Thank you, @LizEF.

 

It worked almost as intended. Adding a small amount of complementary colour should neutralise a part of the original and add grey to it. Something like that. In other words: it should mute the bright turquoise colour. The surprise part was the increase in saturation, which was even more pronounced by adding pink. 😃

[InesF]

19 hours ago, yazeh said:

Maybe that's what Herbin did, mixing two waterman inks

... and a bit of dishwasher soap ...

... and a bit of Gum Arabic or wallpaper glue ...

No, that's unfair. I really like the Bleu Austral and it may be used in near future!

 

18 hours ago, yazeh said:

and that's how a new conspiracy theory was invented and created a tempest in the fountain pen world

... here we go! 

[yazeh]

5 hours ago, InesF said:

... and a bit of dishwasher soap ...

... and a bit of Gum Arabic or wallpaper glue ...

:

 

[DlaurenSG]

@InesFI was thrilled to find your Antique Turquoise post:

"My mixture in this comparison is: 7 parts Waterman inspired blue + 1 part Waterman Brown."

 

I'm finding Waterman Brown has been discontinued.  Based on your experimenting, do you think any of the following might work? 

• Diamine Rustic Brown?
• Pelican 4001 Brilliant Brown (a bit lighter)?
• Sheaffer Brown (if it can be located)
• Something else?

Of the Diamine inks I've sampled, the characteristics differ significantly and I've only tried 1 Pelican ink, so I'm guessing it might be a dice roll?  I've also reached out to Waterman with limited success in finding any product after web searches.

Thoughts?
Thanks to Anderson Pens for their great Ink Tool.

[yazeh]

@DlaurenSG you can try this website: 

https://inkswatch.com/ink.html?inkId=685

[carlos.q]

 

@DlaurenSG  Waterman Absolute Brown IS Waterman Brown. It was previously known as Waterman Havana Brown. Name changes, same ink.

 

Waterman Inspired Blue, which is used for this formula was previously known as Waterman South Seas Blue.

[InesF]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:59 AM, DlaurenSG said:

I'm finding Waterman Brown has been discontinued.  Based on your experimenting, do you think any of the following might work? 

• Diamine Rustic Brown?
• Pelican 4001 Brilliant Brown (a bit lighter)?
• Sheaffer Brown (if it can be located)
• Something else?

Generally spoken, you may use whatever you have.

 

In more detail: compatibility of those basic inks is based on pH-value only.

Waterman Inspired Blue is, same as Pelikan 4001 Turquoise, acidic. Waterman Brown is also acidic, but Pelikan 4001 Brown and P.Edelstein Smoky Quartz are closer to neutral (see here). I do not know about Diamine or Sheaffer Brown. In any doubt, try to mix a smaller amount and let it sit for 24 hours. If there is no precipitate, you can consider it safe. As there is no sheen, shimmer, scent or permanence there is only little that can go wrong.

I mixed probably all of the Pelikan 4001 inks and all of the Waterman inks in pairs of two or three and never had any problem. It was only when I (unnecessarily ) mixed 4001 Royal Blue and 4001 Black that I got a grey-blue that lost all of its blue within 10 years on paper. I would not do again, as 4001 Blue-Black is so much better ...

[DlaurenSG]

Thank you all for the generous replies; I will get busy mixing!

 

 

[amberleadavis]

On 4/11/2024 at 9:56 PM, DlaurenSG said:

Thank you all for the generous replies; I will get busy mixing!

 

 

 

Any results to share?