Montblanc 146 fakes on eBay -a few or most??

[donnweinberg]

Now that I've had a week to write with this light-blue imitation Montblanc 146, I can tell you that it writes beautifully and "feels" like a high-quality pen.  It writes immediately and very smoothly with no feedback noise.  I like it so much that I won a bid for another on Ebay from the same seller, but this time paid $48.

[Karmachanic]

Monblanc was listening.  Violà

https://www.montblanc.com/en-us/fountain-pens_cod43769801098290631.html

[Carrau]

4 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

Monblanc was listening.  Violà

https://www.montblanc.com/en-us/fountain-pens_cod43769801098290631.html

The color of the knock-off made me think of the Glacier as well.

[Bo Bo Olson]

20 hours ago, Carrau said:

the Glacier

That pen was more alive than the blue copy.....defiantly an MB that I saw once and remembered. It was sold and gone at my B&M the next time I was there. I could understand that.

 

 

146/149 are piston, so if cartridge is a fake......how ever I don't know how far China has come in the piston pens.

All my MB's are vintage or semi-vintage, so I'm not up on if and when numbers came in or other ID marks.

 

It was said by folks, who might or might not know, that the workers in the pen factory worked 12 hours for less than peanuts, but were allowed after the factory 'closed' for the day, to make counterfeit pens at night and make a living.

[donnweinberg]

This is a further update on the "glacier blue" 146 imitation I pictured above.  While out-of-town, I left the pen alone at home in a house with a temperature setting of 57 degrees F (almost 14 degrees C) for 10 days.  After my return, when I picked it up and began to write with it, it wrote beautifully and immediately, as if I hadn't left it untended.  I am very impressed with this pen.

[mhphoto]

Buying fake MBs has become a hobby for me. It’s hilarious, the whole situation. I have them right next to my real MBs. And yeah, they’re all junk. Even the best knockoff’s nib has tines of unequal length. It literally can’t draw a line to save its life.
 

It’s all just absurd and entertaining. 

[txomsy]

I just have to acknowledge it. I had a look in eBay and happened to the blue MB146 described above. One thing that draw my attention was in the description section it clearly stated "Package included : one single re-plica pen with no box"

And brand "Unbranded".

 

From the pictures it looks like the product is lacking in finish quality. But yet...

 

This is the first time I see a knock-off clearly described as a replica, and the misleading pictures (all taken over a box) corrected to indicate there is no box.

 

eBay must be starting to crack down on fakers I suppose.

 

[txomsy]

Added, I see they also have MB149. These can be told -besides the price- for the lack of ink window and because the piston mechanism is an old non-Montblanc design often seen in 60's piston pens from East Europe (there is a blind cap at the end that you remove to access the piston mechanism).

 

So it looks like someone bought very old machinery from East Europe and put it to work again substituting the rings and jewels by Montblanc lookalikes to make a quick buck. This leads me to two considerations:

 

One, it is a pity they did not just put out their own branded models, I believe there would be a market now just like there was way back then.

 

Two, considering the price for vintage, authentic (East or West) German pens, which can be had even NOS for less, the price of these knock-offs bought BIN is comparatively too expensive to make them worth by themselves.

 

If one adds in to the equation Pakistan and Indian piston fillers which do not have the hassle of the blind cap and cost much less, the rip-off (even if one knows they are a konck-off) is even more blatant.

 

It is a pity, I suppose that is why instead of doing a new line of pens, they decided to go for blatant rip-offs so they could demand a higher price from candid buyers and increase their returns.

 

To me, it is a pity also because this helps sustain a bad image for Chinese products. But... it is their decision, not mine.

[donnweinberg]

To clarify the facts about the glacier-blue MB146 knockoff that I pictured and discussed above:  

(1)  I have 11 of these now, at an average cost of around USD $45.

(2)  No blind cap; its piston mechanism acts/works just like that of the authentic Montblanc 146.

(3)  Its nib tines (medium nib) are perfectly aligned.  

(4)  At this writing, I have left the pen alone for two stretches of 10 days, and each time when I returned and wrote with it, it wrote immediately and smoothly, as if I had written with it earlier that day.

 

My conclusion, applicable only to this particular knockoff, is that it is a very good fountain pen, and certainly a tremendous value.  I am very happy with it, and it far-exceeds my initial expectations.  

 

I also agree with the sentiment, expressed by some folks above, that it is wrong for the manufacturer to falsify this model as if it were an authentic Montblanc.  Those of us who have an adequate level of knowledge about pens and especially Montblanc pens are not fooled by this knockoff, so no direct harm is done to those of us who purchase this knockoff.  In fact, the Ebay sellers list it as "MB 146," not as "Montblanc 146," which may or may not confuse some people.

 

It also is highly conceivable that the Montblanc company is not seriously harmed by the existence of this knockoff, as I doubt the knockoff "competes" with the authentic Montblanc 146.  However, to the extent (if at all) that the existence of this knockoff "cheapens" the carefully-cultivated image that the Montblanc company has achieved, there is some harm.  If, as is likely, the manufacturer of this knockoff is in China, then I suppose there isn't anything that the Montblanc company can do to stop it.  

 

I'm not familiar with Ebay's policy about fakes.  Does anyone know?  If one were to ask the Ebay sellers if the MB 146 is an authentic Montblanc 146, rather than a knockoff, my supposition is that the seller would provide a truthful answer.  Does anyone know of examples to the contrary that would show that my supposition is incorrect?

[Gloucesterman]

2 hours ago, donnweinberg said:

To clarify the facts about the glacier-blue MB146 knockoff that I pictured and discussed above:  

(1)  I have 11 of these now, at an average cost of around USD $45.

(2)  No blind cap; its piston mechanism acts/works just like that of the authentic Montblanc 146.

(3)  Its nib tines (medium nib) are perfectly aligned.  

(4)  At this writing, I have left the pen alone for two stretches of 10 days, and each time when I returned and wrote with it, it wrote immediately and smoothly, as if I had written with it earlier that day.

 

My conclusion, applicable only to this particular knockoff, is that it is a very good fountain pen, and certainly a tremendous value.  I am very happy with it, and it far-exceeds my initial expectations.  

 

I also agree with the sentiment, expressed by some folks above, that it is wrong for the manufacturer to falsify this model as if it were an authentic Montblanc.  Those of us who have an adequate level of knowledge about pens and especially Montblanc pens are not fooled by this knockoff, so no direct harm is done to those of us who purchase this knockoff.  In fact, the Ebay sellers list it as "MB 146," not as "Montblanc 146," which may or may not confuse some people.

 

It also is highly conceivable that the Montblanc company is not seriously harmed by the existence of this knockoff, as I doubt the knockoff "competes" with the authentic Montblanc 146.  However, to the extent (if at all) that the existence of this knockoff "cheapens" the carefully-cultivated image that the Montblanc company has achieved, there is some harm.  If, as is likely, the manufacturer of this knockoff is in China, then I suppose there isn't anything that the Montblanc company can do to stop it.  

 

I'm not familiar with Ebay's policy about fakes.  Does anyone know?  If one were to ask the Ebay sellers if the MB 146 is an authentic Montblanc 146, rather than a knockoff, my supposition is that the seller would provide a truthful answer.  Does anyone know of examples to the contrary that would show that my supposition is incorrect?

Hmmm, fake powder blue MB 146 - $35-45.00?

Real Montblanc Glacier Blue 146 new, $900.00 used - are they even really available much yet(?) - price unknown?

It's a tough choice IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND... if not, and you know it's fake, for some people it's a very simple choice.

Just my perspective... YMMV

                                                                                                     Bottom line - CAVEAT EMPTOR

I purchased one of the fake ones a while back and it looked and worked just fine. Wrote nicely andfelt quite comfortable. I ended up swapping it with a friend for several fake VPs. He is also quite happy with it and he is far more discerning, when it comes to pens, than I am.

 

I have several 146s (which I am selling) and a 149 which I will keep (for now).

[txomsy]

Well, that is the point, actually.

 

First of all, how long does a design copyright last? The basic design is now one century old, so it must be approaching its dead line if it hasn't yet. And if I remember well it -which I may clearly not- Montblanc wasn't the first in using the iconic cigar-shape. Maybe Sailor?

 

A more modern design would most likely be under protection, but as it is a derivative of an older one, I am uncertain about the degree of protection availed.

 

The logo and markings themselves, might be in a similar situation, I do not know.

 

The point is, besides using misleading designs/advertising which may be pursued in places where copyright is duly honored and defensible, using an expired design (if it is expired, which I doubt) would not be a crime, but  fair use.

 

And from what I've seen, many of the eBay ads clearly state that these are imitation pens, not the real thing, which would go against misleading advertising, although the high resemblance is certainly an issue. But we do have many other expired copyright products available all  over and no one complains (books, pictures, art, etc...).

 

OTOH I've heard the argument that buyers of cheap knock-offs are not potential buyers of Monblanc (attributed to Montblanc itself). But may be Montblanc should consider their own image and what added value they do provide in exchange for their cost. I suppose that is why they have so many Limited Editions and are coming up with special hand-made nibs to maintain their image of luxury, excellence and quality, and why they do not really care that much about the "bottom" line. Much like other luxury brands come with new designs every season. Or like Coca-Cola coming up with new formulations and "improvements" besides the (real) "classic" one which is nowadays a rarity.

 

Further, makers of knock-offs may be favored (and partly shielded) locally not just based on ideology (property is bad) but also because they help dilute the value and strength of companies from other (maybe touted as competing or enemy) countries, weakening the economy of those countries and providing a relative advantage to their local government's interests and strategies. In a sense it is making your enemy fight against itself by turning customer greed and dissociation of the government from private interests against itself.

 

All in all, I think these knock-offs are moving in a grey area, balancing legal risks, local governmental shielding and benefits. Shortly, in this case, I think there are many factors at play, and not just unfair competition by an upstart company.

 

May be we should all, consumers and producers learn to be less greedy.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

32 minutes ago, txomsy said:

Montblanc wasn't the first in using the iconic cigar-shape. Maybe Sailor?

Shaffer '30's new Balance..........

Swan had a Torpedo shaped pen right after the War...into the early '50's.

 

MB once made pens in the 1xx,2xx, and 3xx price ranges, and had even cheaper sub brands Monte Rosa???....((at one time or another having some 23 sub-brands))........after they went bankrupt they decided they couldn't compete really with the ball point...even if they made them, and went snob appeal. Pelikan went bankrupt twice.

This ball point is from before the bankruptcy when MB made cheaper pens too..., My guess in I don't know for sure, it was a couple dollars more expensive than a mat black Cross's (very expensive) $8.00 pen, when a Jotter cost $3.50.

They had others of course.........but I was into cheap who cared if I lost it and or free ball points.

When sticking your ball point into your pocket if 'open' the little black knob in the clip  withdrew the point...a shirt saving idea.

 

I as a very, very, noobie, sold a dark green one at the flea market....the snowflake hadn't really registered as something important.  I did get an Euro for it in it was a sturdy pen.....

We vacuumed up all the 50-60 free ball points in the house and sold them wrapped in a rubber band at 10 for €1.00.

Yep, I really made someone a real Somegui......

 

[Waltz For Zizi]

On 2/14/2023 at 3:57 AM, donnweinberg said:

I hope that this post is considered within the topic, which includes fakes.  Just for fun, and knowing it was not authentic, I recently received this definitely fake "light blue" Montblanc 146 for $39 from an Ebay seller in China.  It is a piston-fill fountain pen with the ink-level window lines, and it has all the (fake) indicia of authenticity.  To save space, I'm not showing all the photos I took.  But here are some:

 

 

As I knew it was not authentic, I saw no harm in enjoying this toy, which does write just fine for the money.  I purchased it also, as I would love to see Montblanc issue its 146 and 149 in more colors.  I don't hold out any hope that the company will do so.  I enjoy looking at this one.

 

 

Fake 146 - 49.39 kB · 8 downloads

Do you know if the cap on this pen fits an original MB146?

[Gloucesterman]

2 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Do you know if the cap on this pen fits an original MB146?

Interesting question...

I wonder if any parts are interchangeable?

If so, that would be an issue for Montblanc/ Mont Blanc repair resources.

[donnweinberg]

4 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Do you know if the cap on this pen fits an original MB146?

 

Great question.  I just tried it.  The cap on the knockoff fits the authentic 146's barrel, but not nearly as smoothly as the authentic 146's cap.  The knockoff's cap is tougher to turn on the authentic 146's barrel, so the knockoff cap's threads are not fully aligned with the threads on the authentic 146's barrel.  The same in reverse -- authentic cap on knockoff barrel; not a good fit.

[Gloucesterman]

13 hours ago, donnweinberg said:

 

Great question.  I just tried it.  The cap on the knockoff fits the authentic 146's barrel, but not nearly as smoothly as the authentic 146's cap.  The knockoff's cap is tougher to turn on the authentic 146's barrel, so the knockoff cap's threads are not fully aligned with the threads on the authentic 146's barrel.  The same in reverse -- authentic cap on knockoff barrel; not a good fit.

That's a relief, at least for Montblanc. Can "you" imagine the issues that would arise if the components of the MB146 were interchangeable with the authentic Montblanc?  !!!

[donnweinberg]

8 hours ago, Gloucesterman said:

That's a relief, at least for Montblanc. Can "you" imagine the issues that would arise if the components of the MB146 were interchangeable with the authentic Montblanc?  !!!

 

Another excellent point.  Imagine an authentic Montblanc 146 cap combined with a fake MB146 body or vice versa.  Luckily they don't fit together smoothly.

[Waltz For Zizi]

3 minutes ago, donnweinberg said:

 

Another excellent point.  Imagine an authentic Montblanc 146 cap combined with a fake MB146 body or vice versa.  Luckily they don't fit together smoothly.

That was exactly my intention, because I need a cap for my pen, and I'm not interested in paying the prices they ask, the cheapest one is over 150$ on Ebay. I guess I'll keep using it as a desk pen with a Lamy Safari cap🤣, (doesn't dry at all).

[Gloucesterman]

47 minutes ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

That was exactly my intention, because I need a cap for my pen, and I'm not interested in paying the prices they ask, the cheapest one is over 150$ on Ebay. I guess I'll keep using it as a desk pen with a Lamy Safari cap🤣, (doesn't dry at all).

You may want to check directly with NWJewelers (?) here on FPN and on the Bay as well as Speerbob (also here and on the Bay) for a 149 cap  at a more reasonable price. Several years ago I needed to replace a cracked cap on a MB 163 BP and I got it from Speerbob at a much better price than the Mont.... I did have to swap the snowflake top and the clip myself, but that was easy.

Wishing you success in your search (and restore) mission.

[donnweinberg]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:57 PM, donnweinberg said:

 

I wanted to follow up on my February 13, 2023 post and my other posts thereafter in this topic.  As I own 11 of these "MB-146" Chinese pens, I assumed that the serial number shown in the photo above would be the same on each pen.  I was correct.  All 11 possess the same serial number -- KY1944219.  No surprise, but I thought I'd let you all know.  I still love this pen, as it is a consistently smooth writer with its medium nib, even when left unused for weeks.