would you rather buy MB 149 or Parker Duofold & Pilot Custom 845?

[bunnspecial]

I find these kind of questions always interesting, especially when Montblancs are brought into the discussion.

 

Montblanc seems to get a lot of hate from FP users for what they are-a big brand with name recognition outside the hobby, and a "lifestyle" brand. I'm not wild about their marketing, but underneath that are some darn good pens from a company that really, truly is a pen maker. Aside from the big catalog of "standard" nib sizes, they have the full bespoke nib program as well as small-run collaborations like some of the projects from Fritz Schimpf with some really special nibs.

 

Funny enough too, I've noticed that many of the most vocal anti-Montblanc voices have never actually owned one of the pens, and at best may have spent a few minutes scribbling with someone else's. I don't discount that some people truly have bad ownership experiences(and the current US service situation doesn't help) but rarely have I seen someone who actually has one not at least acknowledge that the pen satisfies everything it's supposed to do.

 

I love the Duofold also, even if I think full retail is silly on them. With that said, in general I don't buy C/C pens. The Duofold broke that rule for me, and broke it enough that I have had 7 of them(currently 4) including one bought in the last couple of weeks(I'll also mention that my other no-C/C exceptions are Parkers, specifically 75s and the occasional 45). I have never needed to deal with service, so can't comment on that, and can understand why someone with some poor experience would sour on them. With that said, the nibs I have are exceptional, and that to me is one of the big selling points of the pen. I have nibs ranging from a standard fine to an oblique broad, and all of them are fantastic. I'll mention, though, that anecdotally it SEEMS to me that Parker uses different sizing standards for their italic and oblique nibs than for the standard round nibs. I've noticed this on Duofolds, 75s, and even a Sonnet with a fine oblique I had. The "Medium Italic" I have on one of mine is about the same as a modern Montblanc BB, and my "Broad oblique" would be a good match for a modern O3B 149. By contrast, the couple of standard Broads I've had I would say run about the size of a 50s German broad(or somewhere between a modern German M and B).

[bunnspecial]

54 minutes ago, markofp said:

 

A vintage Parker Duofold will write brilliantly as well. Think mid 90s, around the time of the Mark ll series.

 

To clarify, when you say "Vintage" do you mean older versions of the modern Duofold Centennial/International?

 

Maybe this is me being a stickler, but Parker has been making pens under the "Duofold" model name for just over 100 years now. To me, a "vintage" Duofold is a 1920s-1950s pen, although admittedly even that era covers what I'd say are at least 3 distinct models and bunches of sub variants(original type button filler that inspired the modern one, on up through the sort of tapered 30s button fillers, then the Vacumatic filling model and its button-filling twin, and finally the English-made squeeze fillers). Even though my oldest "modern" Duofold is older than me by a few months, it has far more in common with my ~2020 production Duofold than it does any 1950s or earlier pen.

[kmcmichael]

I think MB is the Rolex of pens, not something a real officianado will appreciate but a quality tool if overpriced.

 If I were carrying a pen to sign lots of stuff, my MB 149 would be the ticket.  It is a nice pen that I rarely use. It has never leaked like some of the things I have modified or my eyedroppers that enable more expressive script. I love the feel and the large nib.

[Parker51]

I have a couple MB 146 and they make good daily writers. I also have four modern Parker Duofolds, one current production Centennial and three UK International, again good daily writers. I also have a Pilot Custom 823 which I carried and used daily for a long time as well as some other Pilots that are a bit smaller. I would consider the 845 as the Custom 823 is a wonderful pen. I wouldn’t buy another modern Duofold. Mostly because I am a little bored with them. I have been thinking about getting a MB 149, but keep asking myself why? I have several other MB, a 32, out of service due to a cracked hood, a couple of 221s and a couple others I can’t recall the model numbers of. 
 

But, back to the OP, having only the pens listed as having, I would likely want something totally different and consider a Pelikan 400, or the obvious, a nicely restored vintage Parker 51. The problem is I don’t know what other pens the OP actually has.

 

Currently I am buying only a few new pens and instead largely stick to vintage, and lower priced ones at that. The only new production pens I buy are Edison pens and I have almost got to the point of stopping doing so as I have every model I like now. At this point I am bored with black pens and am buying only low production colorful and interesting pens. I may consider some of the other current small pen makers pens in the future, or I may get a Nakoya. Or, I may get a 1980s vintage Pelikan 910 to match the traveling desk I have that originally came with one, or maybe a Pelikan Stressman, but in which size I don’t know. Or maybe a nice Yard O Lead.

[Bristol24]

This is too esoteric for my tastes, and please understand, I am putting this on myself.  I obviously don't get it.  Give me a nice vintage Parker "51" circa 1949-1957 with at least a gold filled clip and I'm happy.  It's not pretentious as it's days of status are behind it now yet it remains one of the finest writing instruments of all time.

 

Cliff

[sandy101]

4 hours ago, markofp said:

A vintage Parker Duofold will write brilliantly as well. Think mid 90s, around the time of the Mark ll series. I can't vouch for more recent models (within the last 20 years or so). 

 

 

 

Try early to mid 50's. The Parker Vaccumaatic and Maxima were both duofolds and are excelletn writers. 

[bunnspecial]

7 hours ago, kmcmichael said:

I think MB is the Rolex of pens, not something a real officianado will appreciate but a quality tool if overpriced.

 

So are you saying that I must not be a real afficionado if the 149 is one of my favorite pens?

 

Thanks for that information...

[rochester21]

8 hours ago, kmcmichael said:

I think MB is the Rolex of pens, not something a real officianado will appreciate but a quality tool if overpriced.

 If I were carrying a pen to sign lots of stuff, my MB 149 would be the ticket.  It is a nice pen that I rarely use. It has never leaked like some of the things I have modified or my eyedroppers that enable more expressive script. I love the feel and the large nib.

This whole post makes no sense. 

"not something a real officianado will appreciate" 

"quality tool"

 "nice pen" 

"i rarely use" 

 

In conclusion, modern Montblancs are quality tools that rarely get used and pen enthusiasts are not thilled about. 

 

I guess some people hate quality! And tools! 

 

PS. Rolex actually invented something back in their day, like the dust-waterproof watch case and the modern automatic watch movement. Doesn't make any difference today, since my $35 casio is powered by sunlight, has a perpetual calendar and is much more accurate than a Rolex. 

Meanwhile, nobody yet reinvented the fountain pen so making a quality FP is as hard and traditional as it ever was. 

[Arkanabar]

10 hours ago, bunnspecial said:

<snip>I've noticed that many of the most vocal anti-Montblanc voices have never actually owned one of the pens, and at best may have spent a few minutes scribbling with someone else's. I don't discount that some people truly have bad ownership experiences(and the current US service situation doesn't help) but rarely have I seen someone who actually has one not at least acknowledge that the pen satisfies everything it's supposed to do. </snip>

 

That used to be me.  Eventually, somebody here pointed out that MB lovers rave about the writing, and the haters hate on the marketing.  I generally consider myself a function first person, and I had to admit that the person posting was right, and in my case in particular.  That said, I did once walk into a MontBlanc boutique, where as a skinny young kid carrying a bicycle helmet I got great service, and they let me try the 149s they had inked up, in nigh unto every nib width they had -- seven or so, if I recall correctly.  I left with several different colors of ink on my hands.  If I run across another MB boutique, I'll probably try them again.

 

I now have a much better handle on what I like than I did then.  I don't think I'd get myself a 149, as they are just a bit too girthy for my tastes.  The 146 is much more in line with my established preferences as far as form factor goes.  But they remain price-prohibitive for me, even used.  But that probably wouldn't stop my wife from getting one for me.  It would quite possibly suit me better than the Meisterstuck Tribute to the Mont Blanc Le Petit Prince edition and 72 that she has already given me for Christmas in prior years.

[MidSouthern-Dad]

It really is a matter of preference.  Montblanc broad nibs have a stub aspect that I really like (I like stubs to begin with).  I have 149, 146, the Chopin, and the Mozarts.  I think that the 146 is the best size for an average hand.  If I want a giant pen, I usually reach for a Ranga or other Indian ebonite pen.  Since you have two other Montblancs, there will be a familiarity with the brand and its quirks.

 

I have vintage and modern Parker Duofolds.  All I will say is that the modern pens have stiff nibs, and write wider than expected.  I have some of their more specialized nibs such as oblique italic.  At least they give multiple options.  You can occasionally pick up a modern orange Duofold on Amazon at very good prices.  They are beautiful pens, but at their MSRP, very highly priced for a cartridge converter pen.

 

For the PIlot, I have the Custom Urushi, which has a large ebonite body covered with Urushi lacquer.  Still a cartridge converter (uses Con-70), but definitely a statement.  Pilot nibs tend to be more uniform than the Montblancs in my view.  Each of my Montblancs have had a personality of their own.

In this price range are also the Sailor King of Pen, and the Pelikan M1000.

It all boils down to preferences, as I mentioned in the beginning.

[welch]

On 10/8/2022 at 12:06 AM, Bristol24 said:

This is too esoteric for my tastes, and please understand, I am putting this on myself.  I obviously don't get it.  Give me a nice vintage Parker "51" circa 1949-1957 with at least a gold filled clip and I'm happy.  It's not pretentious as it's days of status are behind it now yet it remains one of the finest writing instruments of all time.

 

Cliff

 

I was about to post the same thing, although I like the simple Lustraloy cap. I have a nice second-hand MB 146 that is a good writer, but I always go back to a Parker 51, the all-time greatest fountain pen. 

[Bristol24]

3 hours ago, welch said:

 

I was about to post the same thing, although I like the simple Lustraloy cap. I have a nice second-hand MB 146 that is a good writer, but I always go back to a Parker 51, the all-time greatest fountain pen. 

I'm glad to know someone else shares my view.  Thank you.  I, too, like the Lustraloy cap.  My standby daily carry is a 1948 vac "51" in black withe the Lustraloy cap and gold filled clip.  I get more compliments on that pen.

 

Cliff

[EricTheRed]

The best pen asked about by the OP is the Pilot 845.  I have the red and black one and absolutely love it. I also have the MB 146 and like it a lot, just not quite as much.  However, since the OP already has the MB 149 (the best pen in the world IMHO) I would recommend buying a used 146 to complete his collection and get the 845 at a later date.  By the way, a nice used 146 can be had for around $250 if you hunt extensively.

[Waltz For Zizi]

That depends on the models though (for me). If I were given the chance at a Duofold Mosaic then there is no contest here. If you are talking about a plain black one, then I'd pick the Pilot, since you already have a 149.

[rochester21]

On 10/12/2022 at 12:06 AM, EricTheRed said:

However, since the OP already has the MB 149 (the best pen in the world IMHO) I would recommend buying a used 146 to complete his collection and get the 845 at a later date.  

It must be true, because every person who doesn't know much about fountain pens but is keen on impressing others seems to have one. One example, politicians(who else?). You can spot the pens everytime some document is signed with cameras present. 

 

It's a Rolex-Montblanc-BMW golden triangle, that sort of thing. 

 

*I know of people who have bought leaky or damaged 149s and use them as they are because they can't afford to fix them(that also applies to BMWs i guess). 

 

**There was this very funny incident where former french president and now criminally convicted Nicolas Sarkozy was caught on camera while stealing a pen that was obviously a MB when visiting Romania for some occasion, he was given the pen to sign something but afterwards he looked at it and decided to put it in his pocket. At least we know Sarkozy had good tastes because he was also dating(now married) Carla Bruni. 

https://youtu.be/mZCSS4uEscQ

 

With this my unwilling participation in this thread ends. "Sorry". 

[sandy101]

Not wishing to confuse things too much, but I'm really enjoying my Pilot Falcon.

[Parker51]

1 hour ago, rochester21 said:

It must be true, because every person who doesn't know much about fountain pens but is keen on impressing others seems to have one. One example, politicians(who else?). You can spot the pens everytime some document is signed with cameras present. 

 

It's a Rolex-Montblanc-BMW golden triangle, that sort of thing. 

 

*I know of people who have bought leaky or damaged 149s and use them as they are because they can't afford to fix them(that also applies to BMWs i guess). 

 

**There was this very funny incident where former french president and now criminally convicted Nicolas Sarkozy was caught on camera while stealing a pen that was obviously a MB when visiting Romania for some occasion, he was given the pen to sign something but afterwards he looked at it and decided to put it in his pocket. At least we know Sarkozy had good tastes because he was also dating(now married) Carla Bruni. 

https://youtu.be/mZCSS4uEscQ

 

With this my unwilling participation in this thread ends. "Sorry". 

The old joke in the US was when you bought a new 149 it would leak, you would send it in for repair, it would come back still leaking and you would send it in again and they would send it to Germany. Then you would get it back and it wouldn’t leak anymore and write better than it did before you sent it in.

In regard to BMW, I passed on buying a used one 45 years ago. Back then they were built of steel that was thin and not particularly well rustproofed and so along with Fiats were considered disposable cars. I understand their quality has improved a bit in recent years as has Montblanc’s. 
And so I never considered either of them as status symbols. Rolex, well actually my opinion of them has actually decreased in recent years because of their high repair costs and technology having advanced to the point their accuracy is no longer remarkable as a time piece.

[EricTheRed]

I don’t understand the hate for MB.  I have had nothing but great writing experiences from them.  I have had my 149 for 20 years with no problems whatsoever and its constantly been a very smooth, reliable writer.  I took and passed my Bar exam in 1990 with a MB ballpoint.  A year later my Boston Terrier chewed up the barrel.  I sent it to MB with a letter explaining its significance to me and asking them to repair it and send me the bill.  They repaired it and returned it to me at absolutely no charge.  They even refused to allow me to reimburse them for shipping.  Outstanding service.

[Parker51]

3 hours ago, EricTheRed said:

I don’t understand the hate for MB.  I have had nothing but great writing experiences from them.  I have had my 149 for 20 years with no problems whatsoever and its constantly been a very smooth, reliable writer.  I took and passed my Bar exam in 1990 with a MB ballpoint.  A year later my Boston Terrier chewed up the barrel.  I sent it to MB with a letter explaining its significance to me and asking them to repair it and send me the bill.  They repaired it and returned it to me at absolutely no charge.  They even refused to allow me to reimburse them for shipping.  Outstanding service.

The example I gave was real, the experience of a friend of mine. The pen was under warranty and other than the cost of his postage, packaging and time he had no other costs.

 

I don’t hate Montblanc, I wear their cologne and write with their pens, I have seven of them and only one needs serious repair work. Montblanc has not made that model for a long time and thus won’t repair it, but eventually I may locate the part and get it repaired. I have another with a minor crack in its cap which I simply ignore. I had a 50s vintage 146 that I could have sent in, but didn’t. It would have required level 3 service, meaning that I likely would have gotten a new 146 with a great 1950s nib and furniture as the barrel was warped, the piston was damaged and the cap was cracked. Instead I traded it away for a Penol Ambassador fully restored in very good condition.

 

I suspect that the “hate” comes from the price Montblanc charges for the pens new. They do appear to have prices higher than other maker’s similar pens. It reminds me of Mercedes. When I was young they were good cars at a fair price. Some a little higher than their competitors, but not much. Today that cost premium is significantly greater and while they remain good cars they often aren’t noticeably better than their competitors. There are some, in particular AMG models which are incredible, but the price on those is also incredible. And so today I know no one who has bought a new Mercedes and have noted that those who did drive them have largely replaced them when the repair bills have gotten too high and too persistent with variously, luxury cars made by Lexus (Toyota), Acura (Honda) and Genesis (Hyundai), or well equipped models of those companies regular line of products. The analogy to this with Montblanc would be to switch to Namiki (Pilot), or any of the other high quality, relatively high cost Fountain Pen makers.

Personally, I either buy vintage or gently used modern pens to avoid paying full retail. The only maker I will buy new from is Edison. I like their quality, designs, materials and life time warranty and they are at a price point well under Montblanc’s. 

[Arkanabar]

As far as I can tell, the hate for MB derives from their marketing themselves as yuppie junior exec status symbol /power jewelry, the steep prices (both for new purchase and repairs), and that they're not much better to write with than significantly less expensive products from Pilot, Sailor, Pelikan, et cetera -- in other words, their decision to market themselves to practitioners of conspicuous consumption.

 

As a libertarian-leaning minarchist, I think that a person deserves to gain social status by creating wealth.  Yet conspicuous consumption is something I see as a bit of a character flaw, but human nature being what it is, it's not going to go away until the Second Coming.  Quakers and Puritans who came to the US had a religious aversion to it (they called it vanity and it was regularly denounced from their pulpits), but still practiced it anyway, because flaunting wealth generally is associated with higher social status.  I can't really fault groups like MB or Rolex from making a profit from conspicuous consumption, but being a function first /bang for buck kind of guy, I'm generally not going to buy from them.