Sailor Kabazaiku vs Pilot Custom 845 vs Davidoff Very Zino (Japan version with Sailor Nib)

[Yhudson]

Hi, I'm weighing some options for a new pen.

 

I’m looking at some pens at JDM pricing+shipping:

 

1. Sailor Kabazaiku  (M)
2. Pilot Custom 845 Urushi Vermillion (B) Review 1 Review 2: Contrasting with a Nakaya
3. Davidoff Very Zino (B) Reddit Userpost Product Page in Japanese - translates well in safari but fails with a google translate occasionally

All three are roughly working out to 40,000 JPY. I have no real chance to try out all three with a dip test of any sort.

I really like my Sailor Reglus (F) ($70) but ultimately reach for my (Indian) Pierre Cardin President M (>$20) on account of the overall writing experience. While the Reglus feels well made and premium, the Cardin is heavier (28g) and as a wetter pen, belies my preferences.

 

On the topic of nibs specifically, I really liked the zoom effect from writing angles on the Reglus and this is why I linked the specific review with regards to the Kabazaiku. However, the wetter flow on the Cardin plays particularly well with dry inks like Kyo No Oto’s Adzuki Iro and even  Sailor’s Seiboku to a degree that really brings out the best colors without compromising line width excessively. The same cannot be said for the Reglus; while it is a drier pen, I found myself pushing the converter piston down regularly to get any depth or overall flow (with Seiboku). This feeds (hehe) into my last comparison point; converter capacity.

I’m not sure how, but I wrote furiously for a week abroad without refilling the Cardin (supposedly 0.5ml). Meanwhile, with the overall dryness, I can’t imagine placing such confidence in the Reglus on account of how tricky it can be to fill the sailor converter (0.7ml? I ) without visibility.

 

I have 3 criteria for my next pen:

 

1. A “premium feel”: Overall the pen should be at least 28g overall. Materials other than resin would be preferable, which brought the Kabazaiku and Davidoff into play.
2. A wet but non blobby nib: The sailor fine nib is not for me. I have no clue how the Sailor Davidoff will fare; I’m excited by the prospect of more “zoom” effects with the Kabazaiku and the pilot would be my first “soft” nib. I like the Sailor “feedback.”
3. Feed and Ink Capacity: It would be nice to refill less frequently but it’s not a huge deal. Having a better flow is more important, but I don’t want to bleed through pages so much; saturated feeds with consistent flow beat straight up firehouses for me.

 

I like the Kabazaiku because of its weight, wood and nib.

I like the Davidoff because its cool and unique, heavier than a conventional sailor, has a metal section and the converter is standard.

I like the Pilot because Urushi seems cool, the nib seems special and the Con-70 would be interesting. I am a fan of pushing down the converter plunger to get more ink in the feed when flow is pale but I suspect the Con 70 doesn’t work that way.

 

Which one would you pick FPN?

 

 

[Yhudson]

Paging @A Smug Dill @ridiculopathy @langere @Patrick L@chochimbv

 

[A Smug Dill]

@Yhudson I see you figured out how mentions (i.e. @username) work here, before I finished my post. I just happened to be reading this thread.

 

I don't have a Pilot Custom 845, and I'm not inclined to get one. I don't have a (Sailor) Davidoff Very Zino either, and it doesn't look like something I would go out of my way to order from Japan.

 

The heft of the Sailor Kabazaiku comes from the brass core under the very thin layer of cherry bark in the pen body. It isn't really a wooden pen.

 

If you want a ‘premium’ pen with a non-resin body but a Sailor(-like) nib that provides a suitable amount of kinaesthetic feedback, you could look at some of the high-end TACCIA urushi pens. Sailor also makes some ‘sculpted’ ebonite pens I was looking at recently, that are not quite the size of the King Of Pen, although those models are more at the ¥58,000 price point when discounted on Amazon.com.jp.

 

[lascosas]

Cross Peerless 125

 

[Yhudson]

On 9/26/2022 at 4:03 PM, A Smug Dill said:

@Yhudson I see you figured out how mentions (i.e. @username) work here, before I finished my post. I just happened to be reading this thread.

 

I don't have a Pilot Custom 845, and I'm not inclined to get one. I don't have a (Sailor) Davidoff Very Zino either, and it doesn't look like something I would go out of my way to order from Japan.

 

The heft of the Sailor Kabazaiku comes from the brass core under the very thin layer of cherry bark in the pen body. It isn't really a wooden pen.

 

If you want a ‘premium’ pen with a non-resin body but a Sailor(-like) nib that provides a suitable amount of kinaesthetic feedback, you could look at some of the high-end TACCIA urushi pens. Sailor also makes some ‘sculpted’ ebonite pens I was looking at recently, that are not quite the size of the King Of Pen, although those models are more at the ¥58,000 price point when discounted on Amazon.com.jp.

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply! I think the Kabazaiku looks plenty premium, it's just the ink capacity that I'm slightly bothered by; how do you manage?

 

Any thoughts on entry into the Nakaya range?

[Yhudson]

On 9/26/2022 at 8:27 PM, lascosas said:

Cross Peerless 125

 

Somehow these are extra hard to find online at a price even comparable to the 3 I have in mind.

 

Maybe someday!

 

I think they've been discontinued.

[A Smug Dill]

3 minutes ago, Yhudson said:

I think the Kabazaiku looks plenty premium, it's just the ink capacity that I'm slightly bothered by; how do you manage?

 

I like the Sailor Kabazaiku, as well as the Koshu-inden (which I have in both colours) that share the same underlying design and structure, but I don't use them as my “daily drivers”. 0.5ml is plenty of ink for my writing size, anyway, that I'm not likely to need to refill after a day or even a week (and, to be honest, even a month, although the cap seal effectiveness of those pens are nowhere near as good as that of the Sailor Profit and Professional Gear pens).

 

If ink capacity is a concern for your use case, you could always use a Sailor (proprietary format) ink cartridge instead. You can get them as factory-filled retail products with Sailor's ‘basic’ ink colours, as well as the three excellent pigment inks, and these days the twenty Shikiori ink colours; or you can just refill emptied cartridges with your other-branded ink of choice.

 

10 minutes ago, Yhudson said:

Any thoughts on entry into the Nakaya range?

 

Nope. I like Platinum fountain pens more than just OK, but I'm not particularly taken by how Nakaya is marketed or hyped as premium, either for the urushi finishes or the briarwood bodies. I already have the Platinum #3776 Briar models; and, while I quite like my Platinum Izumo Tamenuri, I don't think it's such a special delight to hold in my hand. In any case, there are ‘upgrades’ I can get in the Platinum Izumo range that I find appealing, without going to Nakaya personally.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 2:27 AM, lascosas said:

Cross Peerless 125

 

I had one, bought a couple of years back while discounted. Good nib, but terrible gripping section geometry with which I just can't get along. It went straight into my wife's personal fleet of pens, and not because she decided she really loved yet another of my new acquisitions that the transfer was a foregone conclusion.

[Yhudson]

1 hour ago, A Smug Dill said:

Nope. I like Platinum fountain pens more than just OK, but I'm not particularly taken by how Nakaya is marketed or hyped as premium, either for the urushi finishes or the briarwood bodies. I already have the Platinum #3776 Briar models; and, while I quite like my Platinum Izumo Tamenuri, I don't think it's such a special delight to hold in my hand. In any case, there are ‘upgrades’ I can get in the Platinum Izumo range that I find appealing, without going to Nakaya personally.

 

The Platinum maki-e pens are quite intriguing, ditto Namiki. However, I still can't seem to find the right weight/price bracket; the entry level maki-e pens tend to be much lighter than I'd like and the larger sizes with better balance are too expensive. Additionally, I can't seem to find subtlety in the designs.

[A Smug Dill]

44 minutes ago, Yhudson said:

However, I still can't seem to find the right weight/price bracket; the entry level maki-e pens tend to be much lighter than I'd like

 

Those are gimmick junk anyway. (I have one or two.) You want urushi on either a brass core or an ebonite core, and you may well want to avoid maki-e that is essentially printed instead of detailed by hand.

 

Seriously, if you're not prepared to pay the price for good maki-e — and, to a large extent, I personally am not — then you should seek your satisfaction elsewhere (figuratively speaking) getting hefty pens that are not decorated in that particular manner.

 

[Yhudson]

32 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Those are gimmick junk anyway. (I have one or two.) You want urushi on either a brass core or an ebonite core, and you may well want to avoid maki-e that is essentially printed instead of detailed by hand.

 

Seriously, if you're not prepared to pay the price for good maki-e — and, to a large extent, I personally am not — then you should seek your satisfaction elsewhere (figuratively speaking) getting hefty pens that are not decorated in that particular manner.

 

Well noted. I am curious, what are your “daily driver” pens?

[TitoThePencilPimp]

I have a Custom Urushi (FM), and 2 Pilot 845 Urushi (F/FA). Pens are smooth writers, consistent line width,  with a bit of feedback (not scratchy). The feedback can probably be attributed to my choice of ink. Akkerman 7 and 8. I have only used these inks in the pens.

 

In terms appearance, its a pleasant pen, nice feel in hand. However, there is seam that was not  polished near the collar.  Every one of these pens has this. Hard to notice, and cannot feel it. The Pilot 845 feels a bit lightweight, but not cheap by any means. I find the Pelikan m1000 comfortable and able to write 5 hours+ with it.

 

When buying the 845, you are mostly buying it for the body. Since the Custom 823 and 845 have the same nib size, 14k vs 18k, respectively. 

 

There is also the Sailor Koshu...

[A Smug Dill]

31 minutes ago, Yhudson said:

I am curious, what are your “daily driver” pens?

 

Back when I was working in an office, a Pilot Capless matt black Vanishing Point pen was my main “every day carry” pen, and sometimes a Sailor Professional Gear Imperial Black edition, although once in a while I took my most prized Pilot Hannya Shingyo (with the full text of the Heart Sutra reproduced in maki-e over a brass pen body that is finished with urushi) pen with me to work to use for the day.

 

These days I'm mostly at home, so I can grab whichever out of several hundred fountain pens at my disposal, but if I have to write a longer, possibly multi-page entry in a journal or some such, I like using my steel-nibbed Lamy cp1 (which is my “super-pencil” that dispenses ink), steel-nibbed Lamy Studio Lx All Black, either of my steel-nibbed Diplomat Excellence A² pens, all of which have metal bodies.

 

Not that I don't like my gold-nibbed pens; my many Aurora auroloide pens are lovely to look at as well as use, but they are often filled with fancy ink colours instead of down-to-earth ones for longer or more serious content, as is my Pelikan M600 with a customised nib. Those piston-fillers have very good cap seal effectiveness (for European fountain pens), and so can keep a fill of colourful ink that is only used sparingly for months on end without drying out.

 

[Yhudson]

@A Smug Dill If you'll indulge one last question; any thoughts on the Pilot Kaede (Maple) or the Custom Enju (FKV-5MK-ME-M)?

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, Yhudson said:

@A Smug Dill If you'll indulge one last question; any thoughts on the Pilot Kaede (Maple) or the Custom Enju (FKV-5MK-ME-M)?

 

The Pilot Custom Kaede is the only pen in the Custom range that I love (although the Hannya Shingyo, among a number of other Pilot pen models, also sport a size #10 nib from the Custom range). Among pens that I have (or had), it's the only pen with a wooden cap that has great sealing effectiveness to keep a fill of ink from drying out for months, although strictly speaking the body material isn't (natural) maple, but something artificially augmented by impregnating the wood with resin (to fill the gaps between the natural fibres?), which I think contributes to the material's strength as well as reduce its air permeability.

 

I can't really comment on the Custom Enjū, although I know it's also made of resin-impregnated wood — which is the very reason I declined to accept that as an alternative product, when the retailer told me it could not fulfil my order of a Custom Ichii because it has been discontinued (so why list it as in stock and accept my order at the time?). I'm sure it's a great pen, but for the price there are other pens I'd rather buy. I was interested in the Custom Ichii because its wooden body is not resin-impregnated but treated with pressurised steam (if I'm not mistaken), and I was curious enough about the material's properties.

 

[ridiculopathy]

Of all the pens listed in your original post, I only have experience with the Sailor Kabazaiku. Like Dill, cap seal is much more of a concern for me than ink capacity. I syringe fill cartridges, prefer finer nibs, have multiple pens inked up at all times, and write probably only one B5 page’s worth a day, so running out of ink has never been a problem.

 

The CON-70 button goes from 100% to 0% resistance once you reach a certain threshold (Goulet has a video on how to use a CON-70 on YouTube that demonstrates this) so I think it is likely you will end up with a bonus ink dump on your page if you try to prime the feed like that.

 

The Pilot Custom Kaede unexpectedly has become one of my favorite pens, but it is very light. I don’t have a scale but JetPens says it’s 21g.

 

The Pilot Custom Enjyu is a good sized pen. In general I find my Pilot pens to be wetter than Sailor. Pilot mediums are a big step up from their fines, so I find it kind of blobby (again, I like finer nibs). Also, Pilots are super smooth and don’t have the feedback you mentioned that you like.

 

I am a fan of Platinum/Nakaya pens as well. Their broad nibs are so-very-slightly stubbish (best seen with a drier ink). I am “meh” about the typical Izumo shape so don’t have much to say about their urushi/maki-e pens. They have a bamboo-woven pen (Izumo Takeami) that is interesting if you want to triple your budget. Nakaya pens have an ebonite body so I think they will be too light for your preference.

 

The tl;dr version is: I would go for the Sailor Kabazaiku first, Pilot Custom Enjyu second.

[Yhudson]

On 10/1/2022 at 8:48 PM, ridiculopathy said:

Of all the pens listed in your original post, I only have experience with the Sailor Kabazaiku. Like Dill, cap seal is much more of a concern for me than ink capacity. I syringe fill cartridges, prefer finer nibs, have multiple pens inked up at all times, and write probably only one B5 page’s worth a day, so running out of ink has never been a problem.

 

The CON-70 button goes from 100% to 0% resistance once you reach a certain threshold (Goulet has a video on how to use a CON-70 on YouTube that demonstrates this) so I think it is likely you will end up with a bonus ink dump on your page if you try to prime the feed like that.

 

The Pilot Custom Kaede unexpectedly has become one of my favorite pens, but it is very light. I don’t have a scale but JetPens says it’s 21g.

 

The Pilot Custom Enjyu is a good sized pen. In general I find my Pilot pens to be wetter than Sailor. Pilot mediums are a big step up from their fines, so I find it kind of blobby (again, I like finer nibs). Also, Pilots are super smooth and don’t have the feedback you mentioned that you like.

 

I am a fan of Platinum/Nakaya pens as well. Their broad nibs are so-very-slightly stubbish (best seen with a drier ink). I am “meh” about the typical Izumo shape so don’t have much to say about their urushi/maki-e pens. They have a bamboo-woven pen (Izumo Takeami) that is interesting if you want to triple your budget. Nakaya pens have an ebonite body so I think they will be too light for your preference.

 

The tl;dr version is: I would go for the Sailor Kabazaiku first, Pilot Custom Enjyu second.

Thanks for your insight!