M600 vs. M800?

[PAKMAN]

I have 3 600's and 11 800's so I guess my preference goes toward the 800's. They are just the perfect size for me.

[removablemike]

3 hours ago, PAKMAN said:

I have 3 600's and 11 800's so I guess my preference goes toward the 800's. They are just the perfect size for me.

Wow, that’s great! I assume the 600s are better for carrying/travel and that you use the 800s more as desk writers.

[amberleadavis]

On 8/24/2022 at 1:30 AM, removablemike said:

Thanks all for your feedback.  I decided on the M805 (blue) after trying out a similarly sized Montblanc Meisterstück LeGrand earlier today while visiting Las Vegas.

 

Congrats!  Next time you visit Vegas, give me a shout out and we can play pens and ink.

[wtlh]

Just FYI,

 

The piston mechanism of M800 is made of brass and is designed to be user serviceable using a wrench.

 

The piston mechanism for a standard M600 (some of the limited edition ones are different, like the sterling silver M625s) are plastic and snap fitted into slots carved inside of the barrel.  They are not designed to be user serviceable.

 

If you care about being able to remove pistons and service them yourself, then I would go for the M800.  As far as I know all of the modern smaller pens M600, M400, M2xx all have snap fit pistons.  The exceptions as far as I know, are M625, M700 Toledo and M101N.  These have plastic piston mechanisms but are screwed in like the M800, and thus user serviceable.

[removablemike]

On 8/26/2022 at 8:27 AM, wtlh said:

Just FYI,

 

The piston mechanism of M800 is made of brass and is designed to be user serviceable using a wrench.

 

The piston mechanism for a standard M600 (some of the limited edition ones are different, like the sterling silver M625s) are plastic and snap fitted into slots carved inside of the barrel.  They are not designed to be user serviceable.

 

If you care about being able to remove pistons and service them yourself, then I would go for the M800.  As far as I know all of the modern smaller pens M600, M400, M2xx all have snap fit pistons.  The exceptions as far as I know, are M625, M700 Toledo and M101N.  These have plastic piston mechanisms but are screwed in like the M800, and thus user serviceable.

I think that I would definitely send my pens in for this kind of service rather than run the risk of breaking something.

[A Smug Dill]

56 minutes ago, removablemike said:

I would definitely send my pens in for this kind of service rather than run the risk of breaking something.

 

Very prudent. I don't mind disassembling my HongDian piston-fillers (and HongDian even provides the wrench for it in their official retail packages, as well as a video showing how to do it), but for pen brands such as Pelikan and Montblanc, I agree it's best to leave them to the official service channels.

[wtlh]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Very prudent. I don't mind disassembling my HongDian piston-fillers (and HongDian even provides the wrench for it in their official retail packages, as well as a video showing how to do it), but for pen brands such as Pelikan and Montblanc, I agree it's best to leave them to the official service channels.

 

Well, the piston will get stiff over time.  My M625 even had ink trapped behind the piston seal once.   Would you send the pen for service simply because of that?  It costs money, a lot of time and hassle for what should have been a routine maintenance.

 

I have taken apart my limited edition M625 and M101Ns, and it is really dead easy, and without any damage.  In my mind regular servicing and greasing the pen will make the pen last longer. The piston mechanism on the M800 is made out of brass, you definitely don't want to have ink trapped in the mechanism for too long.  Brass will react with ink and corrode.

 

For stiff pistons, you can apply some silicon grease using a tooth pick from the front (nib end), but that is still non-ideal.

 

For ink trapped behind piston seals the only way you can clean it is by taking the piston out.

 

I believe when Pelikan services the regular M200/M400/M600 pens, they cannot take the piston out without doing some damage to the plastic tabs holding the mechanism in place either, and therefore they would most likely simply replace the entire barrel and piston as a single piece.

[georges zaslavsky]

Many years ago I tried a m600 but found it too small that is why I bought a m 800

[Strega]

So far, I’ve never had to do anything to a Pelikan besides putting some silicone grease in it (from the front.) That’s kept them happy for about 20 years so far, so I think routine maintenance is pretty easy so far.

[Karmachanic]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:41 AM, wtlh said:

you can apply some silicon grease using a tooth pick from the front (nib end), but that is still non-ideal.

 

Why is this less than ideal?  It's simple to do and it works. It's certainly preferable, in my view,  to taking the pen apart for no valid reason.  I've managed not to succumb to the TWSBI curse.

 

[Strega]

I’ve never had to do anything beyond adding tiny bit silicon grease from the front.  Maybe once every 7 years or so.  Noodlers even has some lubricated inks if you’re too busy to even do that. 

[JulieParadise]

+1

 

Just add a tiny bit of silicone grease from the front (when the nib unit is screwed out), move the piston up & down once or twice and maybe (as a cautionary measure) use a rolled paper towel or a cotton bud to pick up excess silicone grease from the inner barrel/ink chamber wall. By moving the piston it has picked up enough grease to operate for another loooong time, and by removing the excess you avoid getting grease into the ink and/or the feed.

[Targa]

On 8/27/2022 at 2:49 PM, removablemike said:

I think that I would definitely send my pens in for this kind of service rather than run the risk of breaking something.

If you just remember that it is a "reverse sense" screw (like e.g. watch mainspring barrel screws) it is very easily done yourself.  It is dead easy.

[Ron Z]

On 9/2/2022 at 11:26 AM, Karmachanic said:

Why is this less than ideal?  It's simple to do and it works. It's certainly preferable, in my view,  to taking the pen apart for no valid reason.  I've managed not to succumb to the TWSBI curse.

 

The toothpick is IMPO (professional opinion) the problem.  That puts WAY too much grease in the barrel.  A cotton swab with just a dab of silicone grease is enough.  Put the swab in with the bit of silicone grease on it (almost too much if you can see it) against the barrel and rotate the barrel.  Too much grease and you stand the chance of getting it in the feed.

[Strega]

I dip the end of toothpick in the grease, swirl it on the side of the container or something else making sure there is nothing more than a sheen on the top ~1-1.5mm – ie no glops, no visible thickness to it.  Then with the piston at the back, I put the toothpick in up high and make one pass around.  The toothpick comes out looking the same as it went in. I have never found anything to clean out below doing it this way.

[Karmachanic]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

That puts WAY too much grease in the barrel

 

So toothpick or cotton swab is less important that amount of grease applied.  I'm writing my 10gr container of Molykote into my will.

[fountainbel]

16 hours ago, Targa said:

If you just remember that it is a "reverse sense" screw (like e.g. watch mainspring barrel screws) it is very easily done yourself.  It is dead easy.

Exactly, no risks at all, at least on a M800.....

Doing so one can apply silicone grease in the cavity between both sealing lips of the piston seal , which results in a much longer lasting  fluent piston movement!

[wtlh]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:50 PM, fountainbel said:

Exactly, no risks at all, at least on a M800.....

Doing so one can apply silicone grease in the cavity between both sealing lips of the piston seal , which results in a much longer lasting  fluent piston movement!

This is exactly why I said applying silicon from the front is less ideal. 

 

Applying from the front works, but it does not clean any residual that eventually gets accumulated in the piston seal over the years.  Nor does it clear out any dried up ink trapped behind the seal. Taking the piston out allows one to properly clean both the seal and the barrel, reducing wear over time. 

 

And of course just as Fountainbel has mentioned, having silicon between the two sealing surfaces really extends the time needed for regreasing, as it serves almost like a reservoir for silicon grease, without the risk of it getting into the feed.

[wtlh]

Furthermore I feel it is a mistake to think it is easier and less risky (in terms of doing damage to the pen) to add silicon from the front.

 

The nib unit is A LOT more fragile than the brass piston unit.  Sometimes ink gets trapped in the threads of the nib unit and cause it to stick.  When this happens you would need some force to unscrew the unit, and it is actually quite easy, if you are not ultra careful, to unseat the nib from the feed collar, which is fitted by friction.

 

On the other hand to open up from the back you only have to unscrew the large brass part from the barrel, no delicate parts involved where you have to apply force. Also because that part should always be dry, there is less chance it will be stick.

[Strega]

Wow. I’ve just never run into any issues.  The only time I’ve had to worry about a nib is when I flung a pen nib first onto the floor.  So, I unscrewed it, found an appropriately sized drill bit and made a nib knock-out block, tapped it out and put it back together correctly.  Then I made a nicer knock-out block but haven’t had a reason to use it yet.