Decision taken: be brave and work on nibs

[Paul_LZ]

I have had a chance to check on some videos on the internet and came across a few dealing with modifying/ tuning nibs. I have also been advised to take the plunge, be careful and start with cheaper pens, which I will soon do. One of the videos is the following one. I don't know how trustworthy it is, you guys, the FPN gurus, know better, naturally:

 

 

 

[Karmachanic]

http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/aboutpens/ludwig-tan.html

[Paul_LZ]

2 hours ago, Karmachanic said:

http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/aboutpens/ludwig-tan.html

Excellent information, thank you!👍

[txomsy]

To get started. I'd say the cheapest approach is to get one (1) Jinhao pen (x750 or x450 for instance) and order a bunch of Jinhao nibs (you can get them in batches of 5-10 really cheap. This way you have many nibs to experiment with in only one spare, cheap pen.

 

https://www.minabeko.com/

 

has several articles with links to the main sources and to plenty of videos. It may be worth having a look at. The articles are well structured, listing the materials you need and, sometimes, where can you source them from.

 

BTW, I found on eBay a grinding stone that was (I think) 6000/12000 grit for a nice price also (the 12000 seems to be jade-like). You can also find grit paper in batches with a handful of thicknesses, also cheap, in eBay. A kit from Goulet may be the easiest way to get started.

 

[Paul_LZ]

9 minutes ago, txomsy said:

To get started. I'd say the cheapest approach is to get one (1) Jinhao pen (x750 or x450 for instance) and order a bunch of Jinhao nibs (you can get them in batches of 5-10 really cheap. This way you have many nibs to experiment with in only one spare, cheap pen.

 

https://www.minabeko.com/

 

has several articles with links to the main sources and to plenty of videos. It may be worth having a look at. The articles are well structured, listing the materials you need and, sometimes, where can you source them from.

 

BTW, I found on eBay a grinding stone that was (I think) 6000/12000 grit for a nice price also (the 12000 seems to be jade-like). You can also find grit paper in batches with a handful of thicknesses, also cheap, in eBay. A kit from Goulet may be the easiest way to get started.

 

Thanks a million @txomsy, great info.

Can't buy from Goulet, I tried to, buy my Visa won't work purchasing directly from a supplier in the USA, for some mysterious reason only known by banks and practitioners of voodoo. 

Anyway, I got struck by the lightning of tinkering with the nibs, and you are part of the motivation, 🙂

Cheers again 🙂

 

[JulieParadise]

Recommending cheapie Jinhaos seems to be the standard advice for anyone starting a nib grinding journey, but IMHO grinding the tiny tipping of these Jinhaos is pretty ... er ... pointless. You hardly see what you're doing and all in all you cannot grind what is not there. Jinhaos usually come with fine or medium nibs (or was it a standard medium fine?), so the basic material is just not sufficient.

 

My recommendation would be to get something like a Pelikan school pen (Pelikan Twist, for example) or a Lamy Safari/AL and a bunch of spare nibs in broader sizes like at least M, better yet B. These provide you with something to work with, still do not break the bank, but also yield results that prepare you for grinding more expensive or beloved pens.

 

I still feel a bit sorry for the guy who wanted to give me a handful of Jinhao 450/750 "to practice", when I had already ground nibs of pens such as OMAS 360, Visconti HS or LE/SE Montblancs for others.  

 

The most important thing to practice when nib grinding is getting a feel for the tipping and its shape, and, sorry to say it bluntly, but practicing with pens with minimal tipping just doesn't make sense there.

[nibtip]

32 minutes ago, Paul_LZ said:

Thanks a million @txomsy, great info.

Can't buy from Goulet, I tried to, buy my Visa won't work purchasing directly from a supplier in the USA, for some mysterious reason only known by banks and practitioners of voodoo. 

Anyway, I got struck by the lightning of tinkering with the nibs, and you are part of the motivation, 🙂

Cheers again 🙂

 

It is European: https://www.perlesandco.com/search/p/micromesh

Delivery is fast.

[nibtip]

15 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

Recommending cheapie Jinhaos seems to be the standard advice for anyone starting a nib grinding journey, but IMHO grinding the tiny tipping of these Jinhaos is pretty ... er ... pointless. You hardly see what you're doing and all in all you cannot grind what is not there. Jinhaos usually come with fine or medium nibs (or was it a standard medium fine?), so the basic material is just not sufficient.

 

My recommendation would be to get something like a Pelikan school pen (Pelikan Twist, for example) or a Lamy Safari/AL and a bunch of spare nibs in broader sizes like at least M, better yet B. These provide you with something to work with, still do not break the bank, but also yield results that prepare you for grinding more expensive or beloved pens.

 

I still feel a bit sorry for the guy who wanted to give me a handful of Jinhao 450/750 "to practice", when I had already ground nibs of pens such as OMAS 360, Visconti HS or LE/SE Montblancs for others.  

 

The most important thing to practice when nib grinding is getting a feel for the tipping and its shape, and, sorry to say it bluntly, but practicing with pens with minimal tipping just doesn't make sense there.

I think those amongst others have enough tipping or material to play around with:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005002942312243.html?algo_pvid=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c&algo_exp_id=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c-30&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000022896089529"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!CHF!1.94!1.52!!!!!%402101e9d016603039000657687e44bb!12000022896089529!sea&curPageLogUid=JoYtFurdoGH6

 

Spanish:

https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005002942312243.html?algo_pvid=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c&algo_exp_id=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c-30&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000022896089529"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!CHF!1.94!1.52!!!!!%402101e9d016603039000657687e44bb!12000022896089529!sea&curPageLogUid=JoYtFurdoGH6&gatewayAdapt=glo2esp

[Paul_LZ]

15 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

Recommending cheapie Jinhaos seems to be the standard advice for anyone starting a nib grinding journey, but IMHO grinding the tiny tipping of these Jinhaos is pretty ... er ... pointless. You hardly see what you're doing and all in all you cannot grind what is not there. Jinhaos usually come with fine or medium nibs (or was it a standard medium fine?), so the basic material is just not sufficient.

 

My recommendation would be to get something like a Pelikan school pen (Pelikan Twist, for example) or a Lamy Safari/AL and a bunch of spare nibs in broader sizes like at least M, better yet B. These provide you with something to work with, still do not break the bank, but also yield results that prepare you for grinding more expensive or beloved pens.

 

I still feel a bit sorry for the guy who wanted to give me a handful of Jinhao 450/750 "to practice", when I had already ground nibs of pens such as OMAS 360, Visconti HS or LE/SE Montblancs for others.  

 

The most important thing to practice when nib grinding is getting a feel for the tipping and its shape, and, sorry to say it bluntly, but practicing with pens with minimal tipping just doesn't make sense there.

Sounds logical, thank you..

 

[Paul_LZ]

9 minutes ago, nibtip said:

It is European: https://www.perlesandco.com/search/p/micromesh

Delivery is fast.

Great, thank you for the link!

[JulieParadise]

1 minute ago, nibtip said:

I think those amongst others have enough tipping or material to play around with:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005002942312243.html?algo_pvid=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c&algo_exp_id=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c-30&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000022896089529"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!CHF!1.94!1.52!!!!!%402101e9d016603039000657687e44bb!12000022896089529!sea&curPageLogUid=JoYtFurdoGH6

Yeah, that is something to happily grind away! I wasn't aware of those nibs.

 

So, I modify my rant. 😉 --> Just don't start with fine nibs (with effectively hardly any tipping) and pay attention to having nibs that give you something to work with.

[Paul_LZ]

5 minutes ago, nibtip said:

I think those amongst others have enough tipping or material to play around with:

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005002942312243.html?algo_pvid=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c&algo_exp_id=5a79e710-594e-4f01-b00e-b40471c2f09c-30&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"12000022896089529"}&pdp_npi=2%40dis!CHF!1.94!1.52!!!!!%402101e9d016603039000657687e44bb!12000022896089529!sea&curPageLogUid=JoYtFurdoGH6

... and are they Jinhao compatible?

[nibtip]

32 minutes ago, Paul_LZ said:

... and are they Jinhao compatible?

Oh yes. These are as advertised size 35.

 

There are mainly, 2 sizes of nibs: 26 mm (western 5) and 35 mm (western 6).

However there are many exceptions. For instance Hongdian larger nibs are 32 mm long. Etc..

 

My experience: Majohn 35 (formerly Moonman) nibs are better than Jinhao 35 nibs. They are interchangeable.

 

Nearly all the Chinese nibs I worked on were drier than a dehydrated corpse lying in the Atacama desert.

You need to spread the tines with 2 brass sheets, and even with that you won't always get happy results.

 

You will mainly need 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000 micro mesh. Especially the 2 underlined.

 

Nib tuning and grinding is an art and requires experience skills and talent that most of us don't have, me in the first place.

May that not discourage you from having fun and learning progressively to know yourself, your body, your coenesthesia and tactile sensations.

 

[Stompie]

Over the years I have toyed with nibs - some work out others don't but it is fun!

 

My next project I want to try is to get a fine nib Pilot Parallel pen, take the 1.5 down to as fine as I can whilst retaining the Italic type effect.

I often wonder why Pilot do not offer a fine Parallel pen as standard, I think it would have a good market.

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, nibtip said:

My experience: Majohn 35 (formerly Moonman) nibs are better than Jinhao 35 nibs. They are interchangeable.

 

Lest you confuse @Paul_LZ and others, let's be clearer: it seems you're talking about Majohn's and Jinhao's “number 35” nibs, and not the nibs that fit the Jinhao 35 pen model (of which I have many units, it's a great metal-bodied pen for the average price of <US$1.50 each that I paid).

[txomsy]

Well, I think that what most people refers to usually are #6 nibs. The term, though mark-dependent and somewhat ambiguous, refers to nibs with an ~6mm radius, which is what a Jinhao x750 or x450 uses. Those are big pens, using a non-small nib, and getting cheap nibs that fit in them is not difficult as already pointed out. Plus, if one gets a good grind, the nib is likely to be swappable in may other pens.

 

Anyway, as for the tip... to be true, I started experimenting with Noodler's standard nibs from the free Charlies to try and get a thin (<= 0.5mm) italic. Those  nibs had no tipping. And one could find "calligraphy" nibs/pens in eBay for Jinhaos that were ground nibs that had obviously lost all tipping eaten out in the process.

 

My point is that, for learning, one is more interested in finding out which process leads to the tip shape one desires, and quality of the nib/tip is secondary. Once you have your hands wet, one may aim for nibs with larger tips and, eventually, for good/expensive nibs. Personally, for a starter I wouldn't pay much attention to the tipping, most likely one will destroy several nibs before finding out the right process. And a very large tip (as the >1mm linked to above), may actually discourage careful learning by requiring a very long grinding process and leading to rough grinding to speed it up.

 

Since grinding requires slow and careful work with many trials, I find preferable to start from a nib point as close as possible to the desired goal (if possible), and get used to very slow and careful work from the start.

[Tony1951]

First post here. Hello. On the question of materials to use in polishing nibs, I wonder if the idea of using fibre optic lapping film has been raised? These acetate sheets come in various VERY fine abrasive grades, and they are excellent for very fine finishing of the polish stage - very important for smoothness. They last quite a long time. The more costly types (still cheap) come with diamond dust on them.

 

I came across them in playing about with grinding and polishing the edge of cut throat razors, but they have equal application in any fine polishing task - such as the one discussed here. Here is an example of an advert for these lapping sheets:

https://www.fibrefox.co.uk/fibre-consumables/41937-fibre-optic-lapping-film.html?ipa=23024&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmouZBhDSARIsALYcouq4ZvCfsCMfFf4DMtvLyr-z8qgreDDcb3GlzjcmFgtgm5nhFzHyyzIaAv2oEALw_wcB#/245-type-12_0um

 

These are obviously only applicable to the final phases of grinding, You do need courser grades to make significant change in shape.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Tony1951
additional info.

[mizgeorge]

3 hours ago, Tony1951 said:

First post here. Hello. On the question of materials to use in polishing nibs, I wonder if the idea of using fibre optic lapping film has been raised? These acetate sheets come in various VERY fine abrasive grades, and they are excellent for very fine finishing of the polish stage - very important for smoothness. They last quite a long time. The more costly types (still cheap) come with diamond dust on them.

 

I came across them in playing about with grinding and polishing the edge of cut throat razors, but they have equal application in any fine polishing task - such as the one discussed here. Here is an example of an advert for these lapping sheets:

https://www.fibrefox.co.uk/fibre-consumables/41937-fibre-optic-lapping-film.html?ipa=23024&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmouZBhDSARIsALYcouq4ZvCfsCMfFf4DMtvLyr-z8qgreDDcb3GlzjcmFgtgm5nhFzHyyzIaAv2oEALw_wcB#/245-type-12_0um

 

These are obviously only applicable to the final phases of grinding, You do need courser grades to make significant change in shape.

Hello @Tony1951 and welcome to FPN

 

Yes, lots of us use lapping film, both diamond and aluminium oxide, for nib smoothing. A search on 'lapping' or 'mylar' will take you to a number of threads, including discussions on which version various people prefer. 
 

Personally, I use them occasionally, but I tend to just stick to my micromesh perhaps out of habit as much as anything else.

[Tony1951]

Ah - Yes - I should have known people were using them.

 

Cheers -

 

[Christopher Godfrey]

Yes, welcome to Tony1951!

 

Quote: <...polishing the edge of cut throat razors...>  You've been cutting many throats, Tony?  Do tell (it's alright: you're among friends here - nudge, nudge, wink, wink!)  

 

As to Paul_LZ's original post: do go and read the pages of Richard Binder, won't you?  He has plenty to teach...see richardspens.com, then hit the Richard Binder.Fountain Pens "button" at top and then go into his reference pages.  Plenty of reading material there!