Music nibs... need some information

[Paul_LZ]

Being a newbie, I get bombarded by many and great new info, almost on a daily basis.

 

My questions are:

• What are "music nibs"?
• Can they be identified physically?
• Any photos showing the same writing with and without a music nib?

 

Thank you, and have a great weekend.

[PathfinderAFW]

So I don’t have any photos, but music nibs have three tines compared with the average two of your run of the mill fountain pen. They allow for more flex and line variation. The only example I own is a Noodler’s Neponset, which I currently have a Goulet EF on. They are easily identified by sight, just look up pictures of the neponset or triple tail from Noodler’s and you will see what I mean. 

[A Smug Dill]

 

[Paul_LZ]

Thank you, both, for the invaluable information. 👍

[inkstainedruth]

I have two pens with music nibs.  One is a vintage Parker Challenger, with what I've been told is an English-made music nib (the nib and feed were harvested from a no-name lever filler I found in an what I think was mostly a thrift shop across the street from a big antiques mall near Erie, PA).  I was told that it was either English-made or German-made for the English market, since it's marked 14C instead of either 14K or .585 on the nib.  It's a nice, flexy writer.

The other is what Sailor calls a music nib but it only has two tines.  I ordered the 1911S Wicked Witch with that nib, but it's more like a super-wet stub (at some point I'm going to see if it's possible to swap that nib for the MF nib on the 1911S Loch Ness pen -- I like the color of the Wicked Witch pen better, but find the MF nib is more usable, and have had trouble finding an ink that worked well with it (Sailor said that if you don't use their brand of inks with the special coated nibs on those two pens -- which were North American exclusives -- it would void the warranty , but now that the 1 year warranty is up, I figure it's fair game to try what ever I want in them...).  So far the Wicked Witch has been inked up with Sailor Studio #943 (too wet) and Kobe Taisanji Yellow (a better fit but not a color I'd use a lot).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[Paul_LZ]

Forgive me asking, buy why were some music nibs designed to that the user would use them PERPENDICULAR to the paper? I mean, when I studied music at school, we wrote with normal pen nibs on the pentagrams and it worked fine, unless I am missing something....

[austinwft]

This is a nice explanation of music nibs and their use.

 

http://www.gourmetpens.com/2014/09/two-tines-three-tines-symphony-of-music.html

[Jan Mathijs Rijck]

5 hours ago, Paul_LZ said:

Forgive me asking, buy why were some music nibs designed to that the user would use them PERPENDICULAR to the paper? I mean, when I studied music at school, we wrote with normal pen nibs on the pentagrams and it worked fine, unless I am missing something....

 

That was originally precisely the decisive point.

 

A music nib should be suitable for writing notes on an almost vertical sheet (e.g. on a sheet of music standing in the holder on a piano).
Therefore, a music nib is defined above all by the very abundant flow of ink, even when the pen is held almost horizontally, as well as by the possibility of writing line variations (i.e. different musical notes with the various heads, necks and flags etc.) without much pressure.

Mostly this is achieved by the two capillary slits and a writing tip that flexes very easily, at least in a small variation range.

So it is quite legitimate for a manufacturer to call his nib a music nib, even if it has only one capillary slot, if it writes sufficiently well with almost vertical paper and a horizontal pen.

[JulieParadise]

If the question is still unsolved why the pen has to be held perpendicular, then the answer would be:

 

It is a lot easier to manufacture a broad nib as we know it from stub/italic nibs (no matter if it has one or two slits) and then hold these sideways to write/draw the thin "stem" of a note and then hold this position to write the broader "ball" than it would be to grind a shape like that of an architect/Hebrew/Arabic grind nib with its narrow "hoof" shape. With an architect style nib you could just take the pen as is and have fine vertical downstrokes and wide sidestrokes while holding the pen normally, but this kind of nib shape is a lot more finicky and sensitive to the writing angle and also harder to produce/shape. You'd need a huge blob of tipping to achieve the same effect.

[Paul_LZ]

Thank you for the link, very instructive!

[Paul_LZ]

1 hour ago, Jan Mathijs Rijck said:

Therefore, a music nib is defined above all by the very abundant flow of ink, even when the pen is held almost horizontally, as well as by the possibility of writing line variations (i.e. different musical notes with the various heads, necks and flags etc.) without much pressure.

Great! This explains it! Thank you!

[Paul_LZ]

53 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

If the question is still unsolved why the pen has to be held perpendicular, then the answer would be:

 

It is a lot easier to manufacture a broad nib as we know it from stub/italic nibs (no matter if it has one or two slits) and then hold these sideways to write/draw the thin "stem" of a note and then hold this position to write the broader "ball" than it would be to grind a shape like that of an architect/Hebrew/Arabic grind nib with its narrow "hoof" shape. With an architect style nib you could just take the pen as is and have fine vertical downstrokes and wide sidestrokes while holding the pen normally, but this kind of nib shape is a lot more finicky and sensitive to the writing angle and also harder to produce/shape. You'd need a huge blob of tipping to achieve the same effect.

Thanks Ruth, always helpful as usual,  🙂

[es9]

6 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

With an architect style nib you could just take the pen as is and have fine vertical downstrokes and wide sidestrokes while holding the pen normally, but this kind of nib shape is a lot more finicky and sensitive to the writing angle and also harder to produce/shape.

Are all architect grinds finicky and/or hard to write smoothly with? 

[Switala]

Hello, great explanations and considerations about the musical Nib. I would like to complement with the link about the history of Pelikan with musical Nib.
I already had in my hands a Sheaffer musical nib.

Best Regards

 

https://thepelikansperch.com/2021/03/12/pelikan-music-nib/

[kmlstmoorthi]

A modern MB music nib

 

 

And a vintage....

 

[JulieParadise]

13 hours ago, es9 said:

Are all architect grinds finicky and/or hard to write smoothly with? 

They are finicky in the sense of demanding to be held at a specific angle towards the paper. If that angle doesn't suit you, writing can feel quite weird or even uncomfortable. 

 

That is why I only grind architect nibs for people I know personally or am sure that they know what they want to avoid frustration on both ends. I have met quite a few people who were feeling major disappointment when they realized that architect (or flex) nibs are just not suited for the way they are comfortably writing. 

 

There is a learning curve involved/ required, that most people don't experience when they come across a wide and generous stub, which a music nib basically is.

[JulieParadise]

7 hours ago, kmlstmoorthi said:

A modern MB music nib

 

 

And a vintage....

 

Ooh, thank you for sharing! I may feel some slight nib envy now! 🤭

[A Smug Dill]

20 hours ago, JulieParadise said:

It is a lot easier to manufacture a broad nib as we know it from stub/italic nibs (no matter if it has one or two slits) and then hold these sideways to write/draw the thin "stem" of a note and then hold this position to write the broader "ball" than it would be to grind a shape like that of an architect/Hebrew/Arabic grind nib with its narrow "hoof" shape.

 

Unless you start essentially with a Pilot Parallel pen, in which the nib slit is essentially the gap between two parallel plates ▕▏, and cut the same curve on both plates to suit the particular user's habitual writing angle, I suppose.

 

[JulieParadise]

28 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Unless you start essentially with a Pilot Parallel pen, in which the nib slit is essentially the gap between two parallel plates ▕▏, and cut the same curve on both plates to suit the particular user's habitual writing angle, I suppose.

 

I wonder what a "luxury Parallel Pen" then would look like! Imagine a gold nibbed fat 1.5 / 2.4 / 3.8 or even 6 mm Parallel Pen style nib in a Pilot Custom (Heritage) body ... uuuh, that would be so much fun!

[A Smug Dill]

2 minutes ago, JulieParadise said:

So, imagine a gold nibbed fat 1.5 / 2.4 / 3.8 or even 6 mm Parallel Pen style nib in a Pilot Custom (Heritage) body ... uuuh, that would be so much fun!

 

Some users already fit Pilot Parallel nib assemblies into certain Opus 88 pen models.

 

There are some piston-fillers which I know from experience can successfully house Pilot Parallel nibs as well.