My "new" Waterman 52

[mhwombat]

Got this from L'Atelier Lesoon. It arrive on Wednesday but I didn't get a chance to take a photo until now. Lovely writer. Normally I wouldn't like having someone else's initial on my pen, but this one is so cool, and I can pretend it's just a design. (And if it bothered me, I could slide it off.)

 

I'm curious about the clip with the initial. Does anyone know if this was something Waterman sold, or is more likely to be an aftermarket thing, perhaps made by a local jeweller?

 

 

Edit: The nib is 18K, not 14K.

[mhwombat]

By the way, this is the third pen I've bought from L'Atelier Lesoon. Every single one was in excellent condition, well-restored, exactly as described, and the price was reasonable. They always seem to have a nice assortment of vintage pens in the sub-€150 range. I recommend them highly.

[shalitha33]

First of all  congrats !!  Early waterman pens are nice to write with

I have few questions about some of the parts of that pen . I'm assuming it is https://atelier-lesoon.com/produit/stylos/stylo-plume/stylos-plume-flexible/stylo-plume-waterman-52-ebonite-chased-1920s-2/ ? I'm no expert in waterman pens so please don't take my word for it.

Did you ever take out the nib? is it stamped 18k on the back or does it have any other stamping indicating its 18k  (hallmark , assayer mark or what ever its called , sorry I'm not sure). Just wondering as that page seems to say it is 18k.

Clip is probably a later replacement in my view. Again I can be very wrong. in one of the pics of the cap you can see the two drilled holes right next to each other where the original clip would have gone in. There are caps that doesn't have clips or ring tops but fairly sure they don't have the holes drilled in them.

I cant say the lever is wrong as I think there are BHR pens (also ripples) using that style on the later years but that shouldn't be in the 20s ? Also the cutout in the barrel for the leaver looks a bit too long. I'm assuming that too is a replacement. 

Also the profile of the cap looks wrong.  it looks shortened. ring on it also looks a bit odd to me. it feels more like one from a later 3 or 32 kind of a pen? 52 rings tend to taper a bit to transition nicely to the barrel . this one just stops flat. i would expect it to be a bit more rounded at the end.

Sorry i don't have a matching 52 to take a photo on hand atm :(. following are 52 1/2V pens from the same period (pocket version) note that the band angles towards the barrel. Also note that the pen on the top is not completely screwed in. Transition between barrel and cap looks wired in that case compared to the other 3.



Page 75 / 76 of 1925 catalog talks about engraving. I'm not sure about clips though.
Waterman Fountain Pen Catalogs : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Best to check with the shop or with some one who knows about waterman pens to see if all parts are matching and it is as it should be. My knowledge in this matter is almost non existing  Even if the parts doesn't match that should still be ok and would be part of the history for the pen. Given this is a inter-war pen, if there was a repair done in the middle of WW2 matching parts would have been the least of their worries. 

[mhwombat]

The writing on the nib is quite worn, but it seems to say "14 C - 585", so I think it's 14K rather than 18K. I think the listing was incorrect.

 

It's been a long day and I'm an eejit! In another thread I posted about the Pelikan 400NN I got today, and I mixed up the threads! The waterman nib probably is 18K.

 

[shalitha33]

Hmm interesting, Are you able to post the writing on it or a pic of the nib ? I haven't come across a waterman US nib marked 14c -585 before so would love to see it :).

[mhwombat]

Disregard, I was thinking of my pelikan that I bought at about the same time!

 

 

[mhwombat]

Disregard.

[mhwombat]

My brain isn't working properly today! In another thread I posted about the Pelikan 400NN I got today, and I mixed up the threads!

 

The waterman nib probably is 18K, although I can't tell for sure. Here's a photo:

[shalitha33]

That's a pelikan nib. That certainly shouldn't match a waterman and shouldn't be a period replacement either. Unfortunately I would see this more as a frankenpen than a waterman :(.

 

I wouldn't have expected a proper shop to sell a franken pen without clearly labelling  it as such and coming clean about it. Pelikan nibs are nice but I don't see this as the shop being honest about what they are selling to the customer

Did they tell you that the nib was a replacement? also what the feed look like. is it a pelikan feed or a waterman feed?  two are visually very different. Also I didn't know there was a pelikan nib that has the same dimensions as a number 2 waterman. I'm assuming its just the nib and not some one machining out the section to screw in a nib unit from something small like an IBIS.

Edited June 20, 2022 by shalitha33
sorry , no longer relevant

[shalitha33]

Opps that explains it. sorry i posted that before i saw your pic :(.

[bunnspecial]

The clip looks like what's called an accomodation clip. They were add-on accessories for clips then that were often clipless.

 

Neither my 52 nor my 52V have factory clips, but here's the period accomodation on my 52V. It CAN be removed, although since they can scratch/rub I don't like to do it particularly often nor would I be inclined to install one on a pen that doesn't currently have one.

 

[mhwombat]

4 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

The clip looks like what's called an accomodation clip. They were add-on accessories for clips then that were often clipless.

Thank you, @bunnspecial that does make sense.

 

And thank you @shalitha33for pointing out that it's 18K, not 14K. Sorry for the confusion! I wonder if maybe the band on the cap was added to strengthen it; i.e. maybe it had a small crack. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

[shalitha33]

25 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

Neither my 52 nor my 52V have factory clips, but here's the period accomodation on my 52V. It CAN be removed, although since they can scratch/rub I don't like to do it particularly often nor would I be inclined to install one on a pen that doesn't currently have one.

That clip actually "could" be waterman.  Is there any reference to France or silver printed on that clip? . I think i saw an article about the story around this somewhere but cant seem to find it anymore :(.

[bunnspecial]

22 hours ago, shalitha33 said:

That clip actually "could" be waterman.  Is there any reference to France or silver printed on that clip? . I think i saw an article about the story around this somewhere but cant seem to find it anymore :(.

I can't find anything.

 

When I took the photo, I thought that the round logo looks suspsiciously like how the end of Waterman levers are stamped. I'm not sure, though, as all I can read on the clip are the letters "DEA" in the middle of it, and not the full "IDEAL" like the levers say...

[Paul-in-SF]

On 6/20/2022 at 6:47 AM, mhwombat said:

By the way, this is the third pen I've bought from L'Atelier Lesoon. Every single one was in excellent condition, well-restored, exactly as described, and the price was reasonable. They always seem to have a nice assortment of vintage pens in the sub-€150 range. I recommend them highly.

 

I have bookmarked them for when I have money to spend again. Their assortment runs up towards €1000 as well. Thank you (I think). 

[mhwombat]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:37 AM, shalitha33 said:

That clip actually "could" be waterman.  Is there any reference to France or silver printed on that clip?

The only marking I could find on the clip is this triangle which has the letters "?F" (maybe "KF" or "RF"?) above it. It's on the inside of the clip (i.e., you have to remove the clip to see it). Here's a close-up:

And here's a close-up of the nib: