Big Pens or Small Pens / Clips, Clipless or Rollstops

[CoolBreeze]

I love this topic. I always prefer bigger pens with bigger sections (12mm + ). This rules out a lot of pens so it keeps the collection down but then again, it also makes single acquisitions more money. Thick sections and longer pens that balance/sit in the web of my hand make for the most comfortable of writing experiences. High angle writing postures are for dreaded ballpoints and rollerballs and require much more tension of the fingers. I love clips and feel they really make the aesthetic of a pen. Then again one of the reasons I am drawn to fountain pens is the old-world classic look of them so that may vary if you like the super modern flashy acrylics.

 

I don't fully understand why there are not more big pens from non-Indian manufacturers though at moderate prices. The clips on Indian pens are really ugly (for the most part) to my eye and turn me off from them. That being said, I don't mind them being plated as almost all clips are that way so you  just have to deal with it I guess.

 

I can still remember a girl in 7th grade that had early-onset-arthritis and all of her pens were thick pens. I took that advice and my hands are much more comfortable that way. 

[HauntedMyst]

My favorite pens are my Opus 88 Omar and Jazz pens which I think are either medium-large or large.  

[sansenri]

large pens
my pens can be large but not unbearably large. I don't have very big hands so some pens are excessive for me, although with time I've become accustomed to larger pens while in my youth I have often used thinner pens.
I don't own a Pelikan M1000 or a Montblanc 149 due to fear that it might be too big for me (and given prices of these pens it might be an unwise investment), although recently I've used larger pens and in some cases size is probably similar.
Larger pens are more comfortable to hold as grip can be more relaxed, but excessive size can distract from writing (I love the look of my Ranga 5 but I find it almost impossible to use...and it's not so much a matter of section width, but the barrel is way to big and fills my hand excessively becoming almost an impediment to comfortable movement).

My ideal size is Pelikan M800, Parker Centennial, Aurora 88 BIG.
Still there are some large pens out there that can be rather comfortable.

 

shape
shape matters a lot, ergonomics of shape can make a huge difference to me, so besides size  I have some favourite shapes. An obvious shape is a straight pen, comfortable to hold, no steps in the way of my fingers (I hate steps), perhaps a simple shape, but highly desirable. Then there is the ogival shape with hourglass section, that I find also very comfortable, the pen can be bigger but will fall in the hand without strain.
When comfortable shape is sacrificed to looks, that's when I often give up even wanting to try such a pen.

 

clips
some clips are useful, if the pen is small enough and light enough (think Pelikan M200) a clip to clip it in your shirt pocket or jacket pocket is a god send.
I've had pens falling out of my shirt pocket and some pens hopelessly stuck horizontally at the bottom of my jacket pocket. Clips avoid that.
On large pens clips are useless, such pens will never stay in a shirt pocket and are often too big for the pen to clip in a jacket pocket...
On large pens clips are often ugly.
On Indian pens clips are very ugly...
Ebonite pens look much nicer without a clip cutting through a beautiful swirling pattern. Like no other pens ebonite pens look great without a clip.

(the beauty of a simple, undisturbed shape)

 

 

 

Some clips are smart though, often spring clips are quite smart.

 

roll stops
I can't stand roll stops. I find them an additional nuisance that has no real use for me, I always find a good place to put my pen so it won't roll. Many portable PCs have a recess just below the screen that seems a perfect place to rest your pen.
I can't think that I ever let a pen roll off my desk (I'm rather careful with my pens).

Also, I almost never post and very often hold the pen cap in my left hand.

 

small pens
although with age I'm finding larger pens more comfortable, I can't give up some smaller pens. Some of them have really nice nibs. I'm thinking of an Aurora 88 vintage,  Pelikan M60,  Montblanc 221, Parker 75, Waterman CF, and a number of vintage pens that are certainly small by today's standard, but sport unbeatable often flex nibs...

 

weight
weight can be a deal breaker for me too, above those 30g that have been mentioned (and even that can feel too much, depending on the pen) I often give up.
I prefer lighter pens, when a pen feels flimsy, that often has to do with the material, not so much the weight (I love ebonite pens, for example, while I own very few metal pens), and as mentioned I don't post, so I'm used to light weight.

[essayfaire]

52 minutes ago, sansenri said:

Then there is the ogival shape with hourglass section, that I find also very comfortable, the pen can be bigger but will fall in the hand without strain.

Ogvial?   I don't believe I've ever seen a pen I would describe as curvaceous.

53 minutes ago, sansenri said:

On large pens clips are useless, such pens will never stay in a shirt pocket and are often too big for the pen to clip in a jacket pocket...
On large pens clips are often ugly.

This hadn't even occurred to me - I love clips, but none of my pens are large by the standards we are are using in this thread.  Your observations make perfect sense.

 

 

[InesF]

Over some 40 years, or so, I preferred slim pens with some weight. The diameter should had been in the range of typical pencils (or a little above). Since discovering Pelikan M600's in 2019/20, my preferred diameter is now around this ca. 10-11 mm, which is the range of the M600, Aurora Optima, many Waterman pens. However, a grip diameter above ca. 12 mm is still uncomfortable for me.

 

In contrast to @amberleadavisI never had a problem with a clip, except for venting holes hidden there around its base, especially with Parker pens. While never clipping a pen to a trousers or shirt pocket, I find it useful for clipping (and stabilising) the pen in a pen case.

 

My two most heavy pens weight above 60 g and both these are extraordinary comfortable.

[HauntedMyst]

9 hours ago, InesF said:

In contrast to @amberleadavisI never had a problem with a clip, except for venting holes hidden there around its base, especially with Parker pens. While never clipping a pen to a trousers or shirt pocket, I find it useful for clipping (and stabilising) the pen in a pen case.

 

I agree with this.  I like having a clip.  Even more so, I like having a clip that is removable though I rarely do so.    None of my current FP's have any anti roll built into them other than a clip   Well, the Moonman C1 has a small flat portion on it for anti-roll but it wouldn't stop it from rolling off a slightly incline desk.

[Licue]

24 minutes ago, HauntedMyst said:

I like having a clip.  Even more so, I like having a clip that is removable

I agree if it's like with a lot of vintage piston fillers where you can screw off the top of the cap to remove the clip.

I disagree if the clip is removable because it's just pushed onto the cap like the optional clip for the Kaweco Sport.

[essayfaire]

32 minutes ago, Licue said:

I agree if it's like with a lot of vintage piston fillers where you can screw off the top of the cap to remove the clip.

I disagree if the clip is removable because it's just pushed onto the cap like the optional clip for the Kaweco Sport.

Ditto.  I bought the clip for the Sport because I wanted a clip, especially on a travel pen.  Feels cheap and comes loose sometimes.

[amberleadavis]

I am enjoying reading your responses!

[essayfaire]

15 hours ago, amberleadavis said:

I am enjoying reading your responses!

It's amazing what a supposedly simple question can lead to! I am also enjoying learning about why people value what they do in these pens!

[HauntedMyst]

22 hours ago, Licue said:

I agree if it's like with a lot of vintage piston fillers where you can screw off the top of the cap to remove the clip.

I disagree if the clip is removable because it's just pushed onto the cap like the optional clip for the Kaweco Sport.

 

 

Agreed.   I haven't had a push on clip yet except on cheap ballpoints.   My Opus (Opi's?😅) pens just unscrew.  

[dragondazd]

Large pens. I have carpal tunnel and it's not enjoyable to clutch a small pen and write with a cramping wrist. I don't appreciate having to pay for the "opulence" of a large pen/nib just to meet an ergonomic requirement. 

 

Clipless because clips can break and I hate that. I also had a clip on one pen that scratched the pen body. No thanks. I wouldn't be opposed to a rollstop but that's not that common an option.

[mtcn77]

As an avid Ayn Rand fan, I feel my steel pen obsession has put me at a moral dilemma.

 

At one hand, I don't want to see my pens deform when I have to reach for something from the ground and they slip from my pocket hitting 'granite' floor tiles, at the other I don't want to feel like using Hank Rearden's invention in the most misunderstood sense of its utility like coffee cups...

 

One thing going for solid steel though, it can deflect small impacts: my E-Motion hasn't even scratched from the previously said example. What a pen...

[essayfaire]

7 minutes ago, mtcn77 said:

As an avid Ayn Rand fan, I feel my steel pen obsession has put me at a moral dilemma.

She always struck me as a form-follows-function type.  I saw a gadget recently which might solve your dilemma.  Have you heard of Penwell?  They make these things that act as a holder for the cap so you can use a capped pen without fidgeting and have a place for it.  They have multiple versions, I think Rearden would have appreciated the Traveller. 

[mtcn77]

3 minutes ago, essayfaire said:

She always struck me as a form-follows-function type.  I saw a gadget recently which might solve your dilemma.  Have you heard of Penwell?  They make these things that act as a holder for the cap so you can use a capped pen without fidgeting and have a place for it.  They have multiple versions, I think Rearden would have appreciated the Traveller. 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[essayfaire]

I got a letter from @amberleadavisshowing on paper some of the concepts we have been discussing above.  Since she set it up as she does her CRVs, I took it as an invitation to fill up the other side and share.  The pens used on my side were a Levenger L-Tech, Monteverde Regatta Explorer and TWSBI Go, and my inks were kiri-same, Kastanienbraun, and (I believe) Kyanite du Nepal.  2 M nibs and 1 CSI or RNI (I can't remember and have a Go with each).

 

 

 

 

[amberleadavis]

5 hours ago, essayfaire said:

I got a letter from @amberleadavisshowing on paper some of the concepts we have been discussing above.  Since she set it up as she does her CRVs, I took it as an invitation to fill up the other side and share.  The pens used on my side were a Levenger L-Tech, Monteverde Regatta Explorer and TWSBI Go, and my inks were kiri-same, Kastanienbraun, and (I believe) Kyanite du Nepal.  2 M nibs and 1 CSI or RNI (I can't remember and have a Go with each).

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you I enjoyed the conversation.

[essayfaire]

25 minutes ago, amberleadavis said:

 

 

Thank you I enjoyed the conversation.

Thank you for your letter!  I think you have caused me to realize I should not be so dismissive of large pens, as what seems to bother me about some of them is either backweighting or the fact that the grip is a step down from the pen.  I remember from your personally-designed pens plans that you didn't like grips like that, either, so I think that maybe I'm playing with the wrong large pens and should try some others.

 

[essayfaire]

More evidence that my dislike of large pens may be due to features that are independent of them being large but actually become more bothersome/apparent in a large pen.  @amberleadavis, you have changed my mind through further exploration! Thanks for the thorough responses.

 

[multigeek627]

I've never really considered pens without clips. When browsing the Franklin-Christoph catalog I saw that they offered at least one model that either was made without a clip or could be ordered either way. It seemed wrong somehow (IMO) just because I've always had pens with clips. I don't find writing with a pen that has a clip inconvenient or uncomfortable because I don't post the cap when I write. What the clip does for me is it keeps the cap or the capped pen from rolling around. That's not to say I wouldn't buy a pen without a clip. I I liked the pen otherwise the presence or absence or the clip wouldn't be deal breaker. Also, since I retired I almost never wear a shirt with either a collar or pocket so the ability to clip a pen into my shirt pocket is moot. When I carry a pen away from home I use a 2 or 3 pocket pen case that I can just stick into a jacket or jeans pocket.

 

I prefer pens on the larger size. I have several Pelikans and Parkers and I find the Pelikan M800 or the Parker Duofold Centennial to be about right for me. The M600 is nice but seems diminutive and the M400 is just too small to be comfortable. When I'm grabbing one to travel with (when I travel I'm a minimalist so one pen is sufficient) I will choose the M800 or one of the bigger F-C's and be happy with my choice.