Big Pens or Small Pens / Clips, Clipless or Rollstops

[amberleadavis]

@essayfaire was reading my review of my Hinze Pen Evancio and asked why I like such large pens without clips.

 

So, I had to think about --- and as @Arkanabar @Noihvo and @A Smug Dill would encourage --- write about it.

 

So, my response will be in the next post.

 

 

How about you? What do you prefer - Big Pens? Small Pens? Clips?  Rollstops?  Tell us...  

 

[amberleadavis]

[amberleadavis]

[amberleadavis]

[amberleadavis]

[amberleadavis]

[A Smug Dill]

There are large pens in my fleet that I like, and there are small pens that I like; but probably many more what self-professed fans of large pens will deem ‘small’, since people on the whole have the tendency to adopt a framing of, “more than what I do, have, or want is too much; less than what I do, have, or want is too little,” instead of starting with the assumption that their preferences is not representative, mainstream, or ‘normal’ as in being near the central region in a normal distribution.

 

Since large ink reservoir capacity is not usually a concern for any of my use cases for fountain pens, it is not something that drives a requirement for the pen to be able to enclose a large reservoir. The size of my hand does not necessitate a large grip section that would look out of place on a smaller pen, either; and I haven't found larger gripping sections to allow me more precise control — and therefore more expressive writing in my book — than smaller but well-shaped gripping sections. In fact, I dislike the glossy gripping sections on both the Cross Peerless 125, which is a relatively large pen model, and the main Lamy Studio range (excluding the SLAB), which is on the small side of average, because the shapes are convex and feel larger.

 

Whereas pocketability is a plus to me. By that, I mean putting a single pen in the chest pocket on a man's business shirt without either being uncomfortable to the wearer, or pulling on the fabric in an awkward way due the girth and/or weight of the pen; they don't have to be ‘pocket pens’ by design per se, although I quite like the Pilot Elite 95S, and find the Sailor Professional Gear Slim Mini one of the more comfortable pen models to wield.

 

What I have an active preference against are large nibs. A nominally “JoWo #6” open nib up to 35mm in total length is within the boundaries of general acceptability to me, but I have not found larger nibs to be superior in any way, aesthetically or when it comes to writing precision. Diplomat, Edison Pen Company, and Fine Writing International have all proven that a size #6 nib of JoWo make can be ground to be very fine and precise, and deliver excellent performance out-of-the-box; yet most manufacturers of pens fitted with nibs of that size seem not to bother, and I don't have any faith in Pelikan M1000 nibs, JoWo #8 (or equivalent) nibs, etc. in the EF grade to be worked on triply as carefully to make them better-performing (if ‘softer’ naturally due the longer tines) nibs. Smaller open nibs — with the exception of Pelikan and Lamy — in my experience are more likely to be more precise writing instruments, even though logically only the geometry of the tipping really matters.

 

As for clips versus clipless, I like clips even for pens I don't intend to carry in a pocket or clipped to a notebook/notepad, because due sheer conditioning over a lifetime, pens with clipless caps look either cheap or awkward to me; and clips are naturally roll-stoppers. A stub or ‘jewel’ of a roll-stopper stuck to or embedded on a round cap makes me think of this item of fresh produce we once bought:

or, in a word, unnatural.

 

[I-am-not-really-here]

I prefer small pens, post-able to full size (or what passed for full size 100 years ago), with ring-tops.  If ordering a hand-made pen given a choice it's no clip and not even a roll-stop.  Usually that's because either detracts from the design.  And that is likely the reason I defer to ring-tops - it means the cap has nothing stuck on one side.  Cleaner lines and such.

[essayfaire]

 

 

 

Thank you @amberleadavisand @A Smug Dill for your in-depth replies! @I-am-not-really-here, I have recently noticed the vintage full-size/modern slim or small labeling difference.  I don't think people's hands have gotten that much larger! You all gave me things to think about when considering my own uses: 

 

 

 

 

 

[essayfaire]

Left out two images.  Whoops.  Was having to go one-by-one to get the order right.   These show some nib sizes and grips.

[kestrel]

With my arthritic hands I generally prefer larger pens.  The ideal size seems to be Pelikan M800/Sheaffer's Oversize Balance/Parker Senior Duofold/Conklin 50 Crescent.  Anything smaller than a Parker 51 is too small.  The pen has to balance in my hand.  Lighter is usually better.  Diameter is as important as length.

 

I like clips both for carrying the pens in pockets and as anti-roll devices.

[RobMofSD]

14 hours ago, kestrel said:

With my arthritic hands I generally prefer larger pens.  The ideal size seems to be Pelikan M800/Sheaffer's Oversize Balance/Parker Senior Duofold/Conklin 50 Crescent.  Anything smaller than a Parker 51 is too small.  The pen has to balance in my hand.  Lighter is usually better.  Diameter is as important as length.

 

I like clips both for carrying the pens in pockets and as anti-roll devices.

 

I have a lot of hand damage and using a larger diameter pen is just so much more comfortable. A higher weight actually helps as well.

 

I will say I love large nibs as well  but that has less to do with comfort and more liking the soft glide when writing.

[essayfaire]

14 hours ago, kestrel said:

With my arthritic hands I generally prefer larger pens. 

I recall Goulet doing an interview (not the current podcast format)with a woman who had worked there a long time specifically on the topic of best pens for arthritic hands.  It was quite helpful, both in terms of some specific brands and general principles. Three or four years ago, I believe.

[Paul-in-SF]

Time and again, repeatedly, over and over, I find that the reason I prefer one pen over another is the nib, and how it is to write with. There seems to be a sort of physio-chemical relationship between my hand and arm, and the nib, and I haven't really figured out how it works. 

 

I only have a few large pens, I don't find them especially better than medium or small pens for my writing experience. I am fortunate at 72 to not have arthritis (touch wood) so that hasn't been an issue. I seem to prefer vintage pens, which tend to be smaller, so it's just as well. 

 

I like clips for only one reason -- I have tags on all my pens, and the only real place I can find to put the tags is on the clip. If a pen doesn't have a clip, I have to put the tag in its pen slot, and it's not as easy to make sure the two stay together that way. I gather from @amberleadavis's hand-written remarks above, that she would prefer clips to be solid gold rather than gold plated -- for my part, it's just not worth the added expense, but it's also true that vintage clips with extensive brassing are not very appealing. I don't seem to care much about it, however, except once in a while for a particularly attractive old pen where it looks like the clip has a disease. I admit I don't see the point of nickel plating, which some vintage pens had, they could just make the clip out of polished stainless steel (I think) and get a very similar effect. A decision ruled by expense, I suppose. 

 

I don't care for roll stops and I don't own any. I've almost ordered one or two on custom pens, but at the last minute I always change it to no clip or roll stop. I don't seem to need a roll stop for the practical purpose, and I find them peculiar looking to my eyes. 

[miwishi63]

I prefer pens with clips for the reasons mentioned above. I generally carry mu daily use pens in my shirt pocket.

 

As to size, I like pens that are comfortable in my hand without being posted. Thus, the Pilot Metropolitan and pens in that size range are ideal. Larger pens are hard for me to control since my hands are relatively small and they tend to feel heavier (subjective). I can use smaller pens but tend to grip them more tightly than necessary, leading to hand cramps and messy handwriting.

 

YMMV

[amberleadavis]

As a woman, most of my shirts do not have pockets and even if they did, for physiological reasons, pens would not fit in my pockets.  So, they are not very practical for me. 

 

@Paul-in-SF you are right about the price. I realized, that I don't mind the MB or Pelikan nibs which are actually not gold, so I think I dislike them looking cheap or as you mention diseased.

[essayfaire]

3 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

There seems to be a sort of physio-chemical relationship between my hand and arm, and the nib, and I haven't really figured out how it works. 

It is interesting that sometimes our body "knows" something that our brain cannot articulate.  Reminds me of octopi! But then I could have eight pens grasped at once...

1 hour ago, amberleadavis said:

Paul-in-SF you are right about the price. I realized, that I don't mind the MB or Pelikan nibs which are actually not gold, so I think I dislike them looking cheap or as you mention diseased.

When I first saw your comment I thought, "My that would be pricey!"  I used to be a gold nib snob until I met the Pelikan 205.   I agree with you about not liking the clip to look cheap, but I haven't really had problems with any of my clips. The pens with garish clips have usually been garish pens, at least the ones I've seen first-hand.

[essayfaire]

3 hours ago, Paul-in-SF said:

 

 

I don't care for roll stops and I don't own any. I've almost ordered one or two on custom pens, but at the last minute I always change it to no clip or roll stop. I don't seem to need a roll stop for the practical purpose, and I find them peculiar looking to my eyes. 

I don't have any pens with roll stops, other than some where the cap is shaped in such a way to keep the pen from rolling.  Does anyone make rollstops that operate by having the pen's weight be not equally-distributed?  I'm imagining the heavy part not having the momentum to keep rolling.  

[Runnin_Ute]

Weight is most times a deal breaker for me. My hard cut off is 30-32 grams. I gravitate towards smaller lighter pens as a general rule, although a couple of recent purchases were a bit larger (~143 mm long capped), but the weight was in my ideal range. Both are 23-24 grams each. One is a Newton Elizabethan, the other a Newton Townsend. But some of my favorite pens are my Pelikans -- Mostly the smaller sizes. All are lighter pens. I don't have any with roll stops, prefer clips for the reasons they were designed. Shirt pockets. Acting as a roll stop is a bonus. I have only two pens without clips. The Guider Capsule I have and my copper Esterbrook J - whose clip broke off before I acquired it.

[Licue]

Most of my pens are medium sized and with clips - I mean, that's just the normal pen shape 🤷🏼‍♀️

 

I do have some affinity to small pens and especially: thin pens tho. The latter is partly for practical reasons (slim pens fit better in most pen loops), but I also like FPs that cross into impractically-thin territory.

 

I don't feel particularly drawn to big pens; imo their size would be mostly a disadvantage for me: they require more space and won't fit in most pen cases, judging from how in general I don't like posting caps their length would probably not sit well in my hand, and I also don't really need the increased ink capacity (if there even is increased ink capacity..).

Short and chunky on the other hand, like the Moonman Q1 or the Zoom Egg, I find kinda intriguing (even tho they don't seem very practical pens).

 

As for clips: I almost never clip pens to clothing. Occassionally I clip them to notebooks, but mostly the clip acts just as a roll stopper (and slip-through-loop stop) - which for quite a lot of clips is also the only reasonable way to use them 🙄 there are surprisingly many clips that are not really functional (mostly due to being too stiff and/or sharp-edged). Also quite a few clips are pretty fugly 😖 Design-wise I'd tend to prefer clipless pens, but unfortunatly round clipless pens are in significantly increased danger of making their way towards the floor 😬

Non-clip rollstops can look a bit odd, but usually I still kinda like them.

But my preferred way of roll-stopping is the pen itself being shaped in a way that prevents rolling away (ideally both body AND cap), for example I like triangular-ish shaped pens. Tho if taken too far this might come at the expense of in-hand-comfort, round pens usually are more comfortable to hold.