Query re New Pelikan M800 EF Nib

[melanger]

I'm considering whether to purchase for my twenty-five-year-old Pelikan M800, F nib, pen an EF replacement nib.  (According to pelikan-collectibles.com, the pen is an "M800 (Old Style) Blue-striped" version produced in 1996-1997.)  The goal is to have a more finely writing nib. 

 

I've read that recently manufactured Pelikan nibs undergo generally less quality control than decades-old ones and that, in any event, the difference between a Pelikan F and EF nib can be insignificant.

 

All comments are greatly welcome.

 

Many thanks,

melanger

 

[A Smug Dill]

37 minutes ago, melanger said:

I've read that recently manufactured Pelikan nibs undergo generally less quality control than decades-old ones and that, in any event, the difference between a Pelikan F and EF nib can be insignificant.

 

I don't know whether there is ‘less’ quality control than long ago, because it would require at least two independent measurements to compare, and who outside of Pelikan would have assessed and recorded the level of QC back then as a point of reference?

 

All I can say is, the tipping widths and technical performance of steel nibs produced in the past few years for the M2xx models have been inconsistent. If QC is supposed to have ensured consistent delivery within strict specifications and boundaries, then the QC ‘today’ is lacking, irrespective of what was the case before the turn of the century.

 

And, because of the level of variation from one unit to the next of a given product (e.g. EF nib of the same model and type), take any single EF nib and single F nib randomly from a pile, and you may find the difference to be insignificant; or it may be very significant. The key issue there is you cannot be assured, or have much confidence in, how that comparison will turn out.

 

I wasn't happy with the 18K gold F nib on my M815 Metal-Striped, which was a recent model from three or so years ago. That doesn't mean it was necessarily a bad nib; I just don't think it suits me, and it doesn't write nearly as finely as what I would consider a truly Fine nib (without getting into truly Extra Fine). I finally bought a standalone M805 EF nib, but so far it hasn't been installed into my pen and tested; I merely eyeballed it on receipt, to check there aren't any obvious defects. I have reground the original F nib (myself, amateurishly and hamfistedly), and it'll do for now; and, in its current state, it cannot serve as a reasonable point of reference of how a recently produced F nib performs, against which to compare the EF nib.

 

[sansenri]

Depends a lot whether you just want to write with an EF nib, or you like to also preserve the vintage character of the pen, in which case it would be nice to find an EF nib of that era (which may be costly although not dramatically more than buying a new EF nib, possibly not too easy to find). I personally would prefer this.

 

Pelikans are know for not sporting extremely fine line nibs, so in reality if the final goal is simply to have a more finely writing nib, you might be better off, for the same cost of a Pelikan nib either new or vintage, buying a whole pen with an F or EF nib that delivers a really fine line (you might wish to check some Japanese pens for that). 

 

If the final goal is to have a more finely writing nib for your Pelikan, then either what I suggested above, or the new nib.

Fortunately in the case of a new nib you could take the pen with you to a B&M shop and ask to try the EF nib on your pen. That should be a decisive experience.

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, sansenri said:

Fortunately in the case of a new nib you could take the pen with you to a B&M shop and ask to try the EF nib on your pen. That should be a decisive experience

 

Bearing in mind that this Pelikan EF nib will not necessarily be the same as that Pelikan  EF nib.

[Strega]

I just bought a M600 EF from nibsmith.  I did select the (no extra charge) "tune and smooth" option but don't know how much this specific nib may have been adjusted in that process.  The nib is extremely smooth, and I would say it produces about a .4mm - .42mm line on Tomoe River paper with the first ink I tried.  The line looks a little thinner on Clairefontaine.  (Pretty much everything looks a little thinner on Clairefontaine, compared to other papers I have tried – however, I haven't actually measured it there since I am mostly using the TR lately.)

 

My only other Pelikan "EF" is a ~15 year old Richard Binder nib which was ground down from a F.  That nib is not quite as smooth but seems very slightly narrower – perhaps .38mm.  Keep in mind, that at this level of measurement, I believe there is lots of hand-based variation – that is to say MY hand – how fast, how hard, etc. as I write.

 

All of my Pelikan Fs (which are most of my nibs) produce noticeably thicker lines of around .5mm.  Of course, I'm saying noticeably – not dramatically.  Based on charts I have found, this .1mm difference is what is expected between a Pelikan F and EF.  I find the extra .1mm very helpful for writing Chinese characters in reasonably small spaces and am toying with the idea of even finer nibs for that.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Strega

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Strega said:

I find the extra .1mm very helpful for writing Chinese characters in reasonably small spaces and am toying with the idea of even finer nibs for that.

 

2 hours ago, Strega said:

I just bought a M600 EF from nibsmith.

Also: 

 

[melanger]

Thanks all for weighing in.  This has been an education.  Perhaps Pelikan's EF nib-specification range is relatively wide.  Either way, I ordered several hours ago a new Pelikan M800 EF nib.  I'll let you know how it works out.

 

Thanks again.

 

melanger  

[Strega]

That's a very interesting thread on thick and thin nibs.  Thank you! 

 

It occurred to me that my Binder and Nibsmith EFs were loaded with different black inks.  So, I just retried both the Binder and Nibsmith nibs using the same ink (Pelikan 4001) on Clairefontaine and got .34mm for both of them.  I also just received a Platinum Preppy 02 as part of my "how thin can I go" musing, and with its included ink, but same paper, I'm getting .31mm.  I only have one sample so I don't know if it's on the wider side of "02" or if I'm approaching limits of paper, hand, and ink.  I'm even more impressed with the Nibsmith EF now because it is so extremely smooth yet really decently thin.  I might have to see what he can do with even a finer nib.

 

Apparently, I need to get some more Clairefontaine too as everything seems a bit finer on it.

Edited March 25, 2022 by Strega

[A Smug Dill]

6 hours ago, Strega said:

I also just received a Platinum Preppy 02 as part of my "how thin can I go" musing, and with its included ink, but same paper, I'm getting .31mm.  I only have one sample so I don't know if it's on the wider side of "02" or if I'm approaching limits of paper, hand, and ink.

 

I'm pretty sure the “02” designation on the Platinum Preppy does not mean 0.2mm, but is more akin to the “02” designation on fineliner pens (e.g. Sakura Pigma Micron 02 pens are specified to produce 0.30mm lines).

 

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