EF Pilot Metropolitan?

[Honeybadgers]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:04 AM, WalterC said:

Are the Pilot Kakuno/Penmanship EF nibs generally scatchy? I have one Kakuno EF and it is rather scratchy. I'm wondering if this is expected or if I was just unlucky. My Prera/Metropolitan/Plumix F nibs are all very smooth writers. 

 

I've had 3 or 4 penmanships and they've all been extremely smooth for an EF nib.

[A Smug Dill]

18 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

Any good and beautiful inks I can try?

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/35-ink-reviews/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/86-ink-comparisons/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/153-co-razy-views/

 

… and, as it has often been suggested on here, you can buy ink samples in tiny volumes (and a relatively high $/ml) to test out inks with little upfront spend, even though that is generally an impractical idea for the vast majority of fountain pen users globally due to shipping charges. Luckily for you, you're in Hong Kong, and I've seen some sellers offer ink samples on Taobao, so you have access to some beautiful and/or interesting Chinese inks that most ‘Westerners’ have little chance of sampling.

 

[IanP2303]

9 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/35-ink-reviews/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/86-ink-comparisons/

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/forum/153-co-razy-views/

 

… and, as it has often been suggested on here, you can buy ink samples in tiny volumes (and a relatively high $/ml) to test out inks with little upfront spend, even though that is generally an impractical idea for the vast majority of fountain pen users globally due to shipping charges. Luckily for you, you're in Hong Kong, and I've seen some sellers offer ink samples on Taobao, so you have access to some beautiful and/or interesting Chinese inks that most ‘Westerners’ have little chance of sampling.

 

Wow, do you mind telling me some famous Chinese inks, I hope that you don't mean the inks for Chinese calligraphy, and that leaves me pondering whether Chinese calligraphy inks can be used in fountain pens.

 

Thanks, 

Ian

[IanP2303]

10 hours ago, Honeybadgers said:

 

I've had 3 or 4 penmanships and they've all been extremely smooth for an EF nib.

Do you happen to have a Kakuno? If so, can you compare them, I am not sure what is the difference between them. 

 

Thanks, 

Ian 

[A Smug Dill]

21 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

Wow, do you mind telling me some famous Chinese inks, I hope that you don't mean the inks for Chinese calligraphy,

 

I wasn't talking about sumi or India ink.

 

Famous Chinese inks? Hero 232 blue-black iron-gall and Hero 234 carbon black inks are ‘traditional’ inks of their respective types, that have been known and (from what I've seen in discussions online) well-regarded for many years. I've seen them on offer from time to time for as low as <US$2 per 60ml (or 56ml, for Hero 234) bottle in the past, so they're fantastic value for money, assuming you don't have to pay through the nose for shipping.

 

Famous Chinese ink brands, without being specific about this ink (colour) or that? Outside of Hero, try PenBBS, which probably has as many different colours of ink as Diamine does by now. Some of the older colours available in 60ml bottles with octagonal footprint are sometimes offered quite cheaply. I placed an order on Taobao for some bottles at about 13 yuan each, a few months ago, and shipping within China would have been free; but the seller just couldn't ship liquids out of China even if I were to pay for it. Trying to get inks sent from mainland to a Hong Kong delivery address is probably a different matter, and in all likelihood, there would be shops/sellers in Hong Kong that carry the PenBBS inks anyway. Quite a number of the inks have been reviewed on FPN, FPGeeks, reddit, the Mountain of Ink blog, and so on; but buying them from the very few stockists outside of Asia can be quite expensive, i.e. at prices that exceed some well-known and well-regarded European ink brands such as Diamine, Rohrer & Klingner, Waterman, etc.

 

As for simply beautiful Chinese inks, I'm sure there are many that I don't know about, but for starters you can look at the Yunjintang multi-hued inks and Collection Traced inks, even though they're not famous in the sense that few Westerners would be aware of them. While they aren't exactly cheap, they're still cheaper than, say, comparable Sailor Ink Studio inks, assuming you have relatively ‘local’ access to them and not have to jump through expensive hoops to get them shipped to you.

 

[LizEF]

6 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

Do you happen to have a Kakuno? If so, can you compare them, I am not sure what is the difference between them.

The answer is the same one I've been giving you through the entire thread: the differences in the pens themselves is apparent by looking at them; the only difference in the nibs is the smiley face engravings on the Kakuno nib - everything else is the same and the nibs are interchangeable between the models I listed at the start.  The sizing is the same across all those models except the Plumix / Pluminix, which are stub nibs.  Thus, a Kakuno F = Metropolitan F = Explorer F = Prera F (ditto for the M).  Those models which offer an EF nib (Kakuno and Penmanship, as far as I know) have the same EF (as far as the size of the line the nib makes).

[IanP2303]

3 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I wasn't talking about sumi or India ink.

 

Famous Chinese inks? Hero 232 blue-black iron-gall and Hero 234 carbon black inks are ‘traditional’ inks of their respective types, that have been known and (from what I've seen in discussions online) well-regarded for many years. I've seen them on offer from time to time for as low as <US$2 per 60ml (or 56ml, for Hero 234) bottle in the past, so they're fantastic value for money, assuming you don't have to pay through the nose for shipping.

 

Famous Chinese ink brands, without being specific about this ink (colour) or that? Outside of Hero, try PenBBS, which probably has as many different colours of ink as Diamine does by now. Some of the older colours available in 60ml bottles with octagonal footprint are sometimes offered quite cheaply. I placed an order on Taobao for some bottles at about 13 yuan each, a few months ago, and shipping within China would have been free; but the seller just couldn't ship liquids out of China even if I were to pay for it. Trying to get inks sent from mainland to a Hong Kong delivery address is probably a different matter, and in all likelihood, there would be shops/sellers in Hong Kong that carry the PenBBS inks anyway. Quite a number of the inks have been reviewed on FPN, FPGeeks, reddit, etc. but buying them from the very few stockists outside of Asia can be quite expensive, i.e. at prices that exceed some well-known and well-regarded European ink brands such as Diamine, Rohrer & Klingner, Waterman, etc.

 

As for simply beautiful Chinese inks, I'm sure there are many that I don't know about, but for starters you can look at the Yunjintang multi-hued inks and Collection Traced inks, even though they're not famous in the sense that few Westerners would be aware of them. While they aren't exactly cheap, they're still cheaper than, say, comparable Sailor Ink Studio inks, assuming you have relatively ‘local’ access to them and not have to jump through expensive hoops to get them shipped to you.

 

I see, this is very new to me and very informative. I look it up and perhaps try a bottle of it. Thanks a lot @A Smug Dill.

 

Thanks,

Ian

[IanP2303]

1 hour ago, LizEF said:

The answer is the same one I've been giving you through the entire thread: the differences in the pens themselves is apparent by looking at them; the only difference in the nibs is the smiley face engravings on the Kakuno nib - everything else is the same and the nibs are interchangeable between the models I listed at the start.  The sizing is the same across all those models except the Plumix / Pluminix, which are stub nibs.  Thus, a Kakuno F = Metropolitan F = Explorer F = Prera F (ditto for the M).  Those models which offer an EF nib (Kakuno and Penmanship, as far as I know) have the same EF (as far as the size of the line the nib makes).

I understand that they are the same. I want to know more about how it feels when you use the pen. I know that the Kakuno has a triangular grip and people say that it is comfortable, but I want to know how the penmanship feels when compared to it.

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, IanP2303 said:

I understand that they are the same. I want to know more about how it feels when you use the pen. I know that the Kakuno has a triangular grip and people say that it is comfortable, but I want to know how the penmanship feels when compared to it.

Ah.  The Penmanship grip is much more triangular.  The Kakuno is more a hint of triangular.  The plastics involved feel the same.  The Kakuno might be a little heavier, but not enough to matter, and the extra length of the Penmanship really doesn't alter the balance at all for me - they're just too light.  The differences between the two are mainly in the appearance and in how triangular the grip is.

[A Smug Dill]

13 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

I want to know more about how it feels when you use the pen.

 

The only way to know how it feels to you is to try them for yourself; no stranger's subjective experience, and description of such, can really inform you and impart what you need to make any sort of proper determination as to whether the pen model suits you and/or whether to buy a unit.

 

13 hours ago, IanP2303 said:

but I want to know how the penmanship feels when compared to it.

 

Given both the Kaküno and Penmanship are low cost models (with ‘full’ retail price of ¥1,000+tax and ¥600+tax respectively), it can't be that onerous — financially or otherwise — to try them out, especially if you already own a unit of the Penmanship model and want to use it as your frame of reference.

 

If you just want an EF nib on which to transplant into a different pen that is a ‘known quantity’ to you (e.g. a Pilot MR), then buy the cheaper Penmanship and never mind the how comfortable or uncomfortable the pen body is to you; just pretend that the cost of a replacement/standalone steel EF nib to fit the pen you already have is ¥600+tax, which should be roughly equivalent to US$5–$6.

 

While this thread wasn't exactly what prompted or compelled me to do so, I'd just ordered my first Pilot Kaküno pen from Amazon AU, for A$15 including Australian GST and delivery (shipped and sold by Amazon US) three days ago, just so I can find out for myself what the pen model's body is like.

[IanP2303]

On 2/20/2022 at 1:20 AM, LizEF said:

Ah.  The Penmanship grip is much more triangular.  The Kakuno is more a hint of triangular.  The plastics involved feel the same.  The Kakuno might be a little heavier, but not enough to matter, and the extra length of the Penmanship really doesn't alter the balance at all for me - they're just too light.  The differences between the two are mainly in the appearance and in how triangular the grip is.

The penmanship is a lot lighter and the grip is much more triangular. How triangular is it to the Lamy Safari, and how light is it? That changes a lot, I might reconsider buying a kakuno now.

 

Thanks, 

Ian

[IanP2303]

18 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

The only way to know how it feels to you is to try them for yourself; no stranger's subjective experience, and description of such, can really inform you and impart what you need to make any sort of proper determination as to whether the pen model suits you and/or whether to buy a unit.

 

 

Given both the Kaküno and Penmanship are low cost models (with ‘full’ retail price of ¥1,000+tax and ¥600+tax respectively), it can't be that onerous — financially or otherwise — to try them out, especially if you already own a unit of the Penmanship model and want to use it as your frame of reference.

 

If you just want an EF nib on which to transplant into a different pen that is a ‘known quantity’ to you (e.g. a Pilot MR), then buy the cheaper Penmanship and never mind the how comfortable or uncomfortable the pen body is to you; just pretend that the cost of a replacement/standalone steel EF nib to fit the pen you already have is ¥600+tax, which should be roughly equivalent to US$5–$6.

 

While this thread wasn't exactly what prompted or compelled me to do so, I'd just ordered my first Pilot Kaküno pen from Amazon AU, for A$15 including Australian GST and delivery (shipped and sold by Amazon US) three days ago, just so I can find out for myself what the pen model's body is like.

I agree how the pen feels is for me to decide, I could go to a pen store, unfortunately, due to the epidemic. I would love to hear your thoughts regarding the Kakuno.

 

Thanks,

Ian

[LizEF]

16 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

How triangular is it to the Lamy Safari, and how light is it?

You can go to JetPens.com to see the stats and compare the Safari's weight to the Penmanship and/or Kakuno.

 

The triangular grips have different shapes, and depending on the model of Safari (textured or smooth), it may feel different as well.  I personally find the Safari style grip more comfortable than the Penmanship's, though I don't know why, and I think it's entirely subjective.

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

You can go to JetPens.com to see the stats and compare the Safari's weight to the Penmanship and/or Kakuno.

 

The triangular grips have different shapes, and depending on the model of Safari (textured or smooth), it may feel different as well.  I personally find the Safari style grip more comfortable than the Penmanship's, though I don't know why, and I think it's entirely subjective.

Thanks a lot, hopefully I can try out the penmanship myself. Though the Safari is comfortable, I have to say.

 

Thanks,

Ian

[A Smug Dill]

9 minutes ago, IanP2303 said:

Thanks a lot, hopefully I can try out the penmanship myself.

 

If I recall correctly, the Pilot Penmanship came in sealed see-through bags from the factory, and not in a box. Being a low-cost item, I don't know how many bricks-and-mortar retail stores would put out a demo/tester unit of the model it cannot resell by returning it into a gift box; it probably isn't worth the trouble.

[IanP2303]

2 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

If I recall correctly, the Pilot Penmanship came in sealed see-through bags from the factory, and not in a box. Being a low-cost item, I don't know how many bricks-and-mortar retail stores would put out a demo/tester unit of the model it cannot resell by returning it into a gift box; it probably isn't worth the trouble.

Oh, I see. Thanks a lot. 

 

Thanks,

Ian

[A Smug Dill]

If you're concerned about the faceted gripping section on the Pilot Penmanship, there are always the Pilot P-DPP-1S desk pens, which have the same type of steel nib (albeit gold-coloured instead of just good ol' polished steel) and EF is one of the nib options.

 

Anyway, I'm outta here. I think collectively we've given you information on so many ways to get a Pilot steel EF nib, and that you can fit one of those on a MR or Prera pen if you prefer their pen bodies. The rest is up to you to get first-hand experience with this pen model or that, if you must know which one is best for you ergonomically — and that usually involves also experiencing (possibly after buying) what is not the best, since all that is subjective and relative. I don't think protracted interactive consultancy, in lieu of your taking a risk and/or trying things out for yourself, is either fun or a good use of our (that's your, my, and everyone else's) time, for a simple purchase and especially for a low-cost pen to the tune of US$15 or less.

[IanP2303]

4 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

If you're concerned about the faceted gripping section on the Pilot Penmanship, there are always the Pilot P-DPP-1S desk pens, which have the same type of steel nib (albeit gold-coloured instead of just good ol' polished steel) and EF is one of the nib options.

 

Anyway, I'm outta here. I think collectively we've given you information on so many ways to get a Pilot steel EF nib, and that you can fit one of those on a MR or Prera pen if you prefer their pen bodies. The rest is up to you to get first-hand experience with this pen model or that, if you must know which one is best for you ergonomically — and that usually involves also experiencing (possibly after buying) what is not the best, since all that is subjective and relative. I don't think protracted interactive consultancy, in lieu of your taking a risk and/or trying things out for yourself, is either fun or a good use of our (that's your, my, and everyone else's) time, for a simple purchase and especially for a low-cost pen to the tune of US$15 or less.

Okay, I have learned a lot from this thread, thanks a lot guys, @A Smug Dill @LizEF @inkythoughts.

 

Thanks,

Ian

[jcgara]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:04 AM, WalterC said:

Are the Pilot Kakuno/Penmanship EF nibs generally scatchy? I have one Kakuno EF and it is rather scratchy. I'm wondering if this is expected or if I was just unlucky. My Prera/Metropolitan/Plumix F nibs are all very smooth writers. 

 

I have a Pilot Metropolitan F and a Pilot Penmanship EF.   The Metro F was smooth and didn't need tuning, but very dry - so it seems closer to a EF. The Penmanship was scratchy and definitely EF until I tuned it. I'm an amateur tuner, and it didn't take much work. The Penmanship writes with a little feedback, but is a smooth writer.

 

To give a relative idea of "fineness", I compared five pens - the Pilot Penmanship EF, the Pilot F nib from the Metro now transplanted into a Wing Sung 698, a Pilot 18K Elite F, a Parker 45 F steel nib, and a 1950 Sheaffer TM Touchdown EF. They have different inks in them - so that may make a difference In order of broader to finer, they are:

• Parker 45 F
• Pilot Penmanship EF (after amateur tuning)
• Sheaffer Touchdown EF
• Pilot Metro F nib in Wing Sung 698
• Pilot Elite F

If there were a disaster and I had to only take two of these pens, I'd pick the Parker 45 and Pilot Elite; third would be the Penmanship.

[jcgara]

On 2/20/2022 at 4:34 PM, LizEF said:

You can go to JetPens.com to see the stats and compare the Safari's weight to the Penmanship and/or Kakuno.

 

The triangular grips have different shapes, and depending on the model of Safari (textured or smooth), it may feel different as well.  I personally find the Safari style grip more comfortable than the Penmanship's, though I don't know why, and I think it's entirely subjective.

To my hand, the Penmanship and Safari grips are not that different. I think the Penmanship unposted feels lighter than the Safari unposted - and I prefer the feel of the Penmanship. I really enjoy writing with the Penmanship; definitely more than a Safari.