Inky T O D - How to choose inks?

[amberleadavis]

So, we frequently get threads requesting recommendations.  As I was responding to @NodariPi's thread: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/364695-ink-recommendations/#comments, I thought we should discuss as a topic how to learn about what inks you like.

 

@LizEF, @lapis, @Mercian and @Arkanabar will (I hope) add their suggestions.

 

Here is my system.  I will add pictures in subsequent posts.

 

Identify what papers you use frequently. Whatever inks and pens you use, need to work on the paper you use.

 

I started by trying each ink on different papers and pens.

1. A 3x5 index card - I sort these into colors.  I use the cards because these are cheap paper, easy to sort and easy to find.  Some people use old Rolodex cards and put the cards into a rolodex. I think that's a great system.
2. My notebook - it is custom made with Tomoe River paper, which I personally love.
3. Cheap notebook paper
4. Cheap copy paper
5. Nice Copy Paper
6. Stationery - I do this as a CRV which I will discuss later.

 

Generally at least one of these pages, usually a combination of the papers compromises an ink review for me.

 

So, I start with one ink and one pen and one paper.  I give those the number value of #5.  Then I compare the ink / paper and flow of the pen to the control which is 5.    For me 1 is worst and ten is best.

 

So, my favorite copy paper is 8 for bleed through / show through, Tomoe River Paper is a 10 for bleed through.

My Pineider pen is a 10 on wetness - it is a gusher.  My TWSBI pen is 3 is a dry writing pen.  Remember, your experience may vary.

 

On each review, I write down, the pen, the ink and the paper. Then I include my observations.

 

I ask myself the following questions:

 

How is the flow?

Iroshizuku is 8 for me, and I go up and down from there.  With 10 being De Atramentis shimmer inks which are almost unusably wet in most pens.  Diamine Registrar ink is 3.

 

Does it have (un)sightly characteristics?

1. Bleed Through
2. Show Through
3. Feathering 
4. Shading
5. Sheen

 

Does it have "ignition problems" - I stole this phrase from @lapis - and I want to know if it starts right up, does it have difficultly restarting if I leave it uncapped for a few seconds, how about for a few minutes?

 

And what about the color?  I like to compare it to other similar colors.

 

 

 

How is flow of the ink / you might also think of this as 

 

Over the years, I have learned that I like really wet inks in really wet pens on paper that is not overly absorbant. I also like stub or italic nibs.  I didn't know that when I started here on FPN and I kept buying dry inks and using fine nibs.  Until you really analyze what you like and how you work, I don't think you can really know what to choose next.

 

 

 

 

 

[amberleadavis]

Here is the Ink Review Sheet created by another FPNer.

 

Ink Review Form (1).pdf

[amberleadavis]

Here are my index cards.  

[amberleadavis]

Here is look at my notebooks. I keep track of my pen widths and which inks are in each pen.

[amberleadavis]

I also have comparison pages.  

[amberleadavis]

As you can see, I do water washes on an outline so that I can see how the ink looks.

 

Here is a sample of one of my reviews:

 

 

 

[amberleadavis]

Finally, get some pen pals!  I do Co-Razy Views with some of my pen pals.

 

What that means is that I write on half the sheet and my pen pal writes on the other half. This allows us to compare inks or pens or almost anything.  

 

For example, I received a bottle of Parker Penman Sapphire.  Using the same pen and same paper, I sent letters to a whole bunch of people.  Originally, I thought we would just use it as a comparison for different colors, but my pen pals tried to see which inks were the closest.

 

 

We had a lot of fun.

[A Smug Dill]

44 minutes ago, amberleadavis said:

I thought we should discuss as a topic how to learn about what inks you like.

 

How to choose inks that meet particular, somewhat objective, performance criteria is relatively easy. On the other hand, choosing inks that you subjectively like, especially without the ‘benefit’ and cost (in terms of expense, effort, and disappointment) of having experienced what you don't like, is not as easy. Crowdsourcing, or otherwise delegating to others, the task of choosing the ‘best’ inks for oneself in order to offload or minimise the cost of exploration and knowledge, is foolhardy unless you know you can be happy enough with ‘good enough‘.

 

There's a difference between choosing inks to acquire and try out, and choosing inks to actually use for a particular application (or use case). Each application of putting pen to paper will have its technical requirements, however few or many, however loosely or stringent; my recommendation is to make that the starting point, then set up a test procedure that reproduces as closely as possible the factors that are difficult to change or control (e.g. not being able to dictate which type of paper the office uses for forms on which one must write, or only having one fountain pen that you're prepared to use for that application), and apply it to all the candidate inks, such that one can judge by the results. That, to me, is unquestionably the best way of choosing, but may come at a cost that one is not prepared to pay. Settling for a compromise between cost and quality of outcome is exactly not the best way of choosing (else it would not be a compromise), but it may be more practical and/or comfortable.

 

If you want waterproofness for a certain application to the extent that the writing won't run at all even if exposed to heavy rain, then write on the sort of paper or label of concern with various inks, and stick it under a running shower, to filter out the inks that don't offer enough waterproofness. If you want no feathering at all, then gather up the types of paper you would/will use for that particular application, and check to see if any of the candidate inks exhibit unacceptable levels of feathering, to reject them on account of that. If you simply want something you'd like and enjoy for writing on Christmas cards, then get a typical card and write on it with each candidate ink, and ask yourself how you feel about the experience and outcome from each.

 

I tested forty inks ahead of writing dinner place-cards and thank you cards, just to make sure there is no feathering, bleed-through, smearing, or changes in colour from what one would expect to see. Many of the inks I (already know and) tested ended up coming up with muddy colours on the pearlised, cream-coloured card stock. It took hours of effort, and a lot of ink ‘wasted’ in the process.

 

That, to me, is being serious about choosing. And, if one isn't prepared to be serious about choosing, then I personally don't think one should put the task on somebody else.

 

Asking for suggestions of a bunch of candidate inks to make the shortlist is perfectly fine and sensible; there are always people who have access to more information about what is available in the market (and from which sources). Trying to avoid the work and cost of results-based testing and consequent selection is the bit that doesn't work.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by A Smug Dill

[amberleadavis]

6 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Asking for suggestions of a bunch of candidate inks to make the shortlist is perfectly fine and sensible; there are always people who have access to more information about what is available in the market (and from which sources). Trying to avoid the work and cost of results-based testing is the bit that doesn't work.

 

 

I agree.

[arcfide]

My recipe: lots of sleepless nights and inky fingers and Q-tips and paper. 

[amberleadavis]

Hmm, no new comments?

[LizEF]

Hmm.  I don't really have a systematic way for selecting ink - not for purchase nor for use in a pen.  I suppose I could ramble on, but I'm not sure how much use it will be...

 

My practices:

• See blue-black, want blue-black; see murky green, want murky green...
• Window shop by looking at swatches, add appealing ones to wish lists
• Do internet image searches - not just on a specific site, but the entire internet, because none of them is write, but the whole of them might give me an idea or what the color looks like (see below)
• Read / watch reviews - all the ones I can find
• Get samples (I won't buy an ink anymore without sampling it, except...)
• If there's no way to sample the ink, research everything I can find on it before deciding whether to buy
• Cartridges can replace ink samples, if needed - sometimes it's a lower price than going for the whole bottle, especially "variety packs" that let you try several colors.

Lessons learned:

• I like ink colors I never would have thought I would like (thanks to a few kind souls here gifting me ink samples).  Therefore, don't be picky about color - sample them all!!
• The perfect color you're looking for doesn't exist.  Learn to appreciate inks for what they are and let go of that fantasy.
• Don't judge hastily - just because it doesn't look good (or behave well) from one pen, doesn't mean it won't from another.
• Know your pens (see above); flow and line width make a difference in ink appearance and behavior.
• Know your papers (inks can look different on different papers)
• Those giant swabs are only good for vague notions of color - they may not accurately reflect what you will see from any given pen!
• Realize that images on the internet are never accurate, and it's no one's fault.  (Over time, you may learn that one image source is closer to what your eyes see than another - be glad if that day comes. )
• No other person's opinion or experience can come close to replacing your own.  Bite the bullet and work for the knowledge you want - look at images, read reviews, sample inks, try ink in multiple pens and on multiple papers, learn your pens, etc.
• Ask questions, but only after you've done your research (sorry, but it's really annoying when someone asks, "What's the best blue?" - as if that question had a simple or objective answer, and as if anyone else's answer could possibly have meaning for the asker...)

Other advice:

• Prod Liz to finish her "primer for newbie ink reviewers" - if she ever finishes this, it'll be really useful to newbies, or so she thinks
• Create a system for cataloging inks you try.  Time spent designing that system will be well spent.  I recommend forming a comprehensive list of every variable (including pens and papers), organizing it, then deciding what you do / don't care about (keeping in mind that future you may care differently than current you).
• Learn what the various ink attributes mean - or at least, the ones that you care about (though things change), so you can capture the information you care about.  Specifically:
  • Shading
  • Sheen
  • Shimmer / glitter / glistening / etc. (all terms for "there's glitter in this ink")
  • Water resistance
  • Dry time (on paper)
  • Idle time (with cap off, not writing; this is partially pen-dependent)
  • Flow (often called wetness; how readily or quickly ink flows from the pen - we could have a whole separate discussion on how a non-scientist might measure this in a reliable, somewhat objective way)
  • Lubrication (how smooth your nib feels while writing with the ink, compared to other inks; if you only use broad nibs, this may not be terribly important or noticeable to you)
  • Bad behavior: feathering, spreading, bleed-through
  • "Saturation" - which may relate to the purity and strength of the color, or may relate to how much of the ink is dye (or pigment) vs water.
• Where not clear to you, learn how to evaluate above attributes

That ought to be enough, at least for now.

[PithyProlix]

All in all, I basically go with my gut. 

 

Well, not really, but I must say that I am not nearly as methodical as the previous posters. 

 

One thing I really enjoy is trying an ink with no reviews and scant pictures online - an exploratory adventure, of sorts. The pictures, even if there is just one, might give me an inkling (pun intended) of whether or not it is the realm of colors that match my tastes. To me, it's fun to try a 'frontier' ink the first time, seeing how it matches up with how I thought it might look. Even if they don't match up closely, it has usually been the case that I still like the colors - for me, those are pleasant surprises. 

[askwyatt]

2 hours ago, LizEF said:

• Those giant swabs are only good for vague notions of color - they may not accurately reflect what you will see from any given pen!
• Realize that images on the internet are never accurate, and it's no one's fault.  (Over time, you may learn that one image source is closer to what your eyes see than another - be glad if that day comes. )
• No other person's opinion or experience can come close to replacing your own.  Bite the bullet and work for the knowledge you want - look at images, read reviews, sample inks, try ink in multiple pens and on multiple papers, learn your pens, etc.
• Ask questions, but only after you've done your research (sorry, but it's really annoying when someone asks, "What's the best blue?" - as if that question had a simple or objective answer, and as if anyone else's answer could possibly have meaning for the asker...)

Amen

[Mercian]

Ooh!

Thank you @amberleadavis for the namecheck 🤗

 

I will be delighted to contribute a response to this topic 🙂

It is exactly the kind of topic that I would have found to be very useful at the start of my own Inky Journey.

 

At the moment though, my laptop is banjaxed (I am currently trying to un-break it), so I am limited to trying to type with an iPad (#Fool’sErrand).

I will therefore draft my thoughts offline, and then (attempt to) add them here.

(And I promise to try to make my contribution shorter than Mr. Tolstoy’s  ‘War and Peace’  )

 

Slàinte,
M.

 

 

[NodariPi]

16 hours ago, amberleadavis said:

Here are my index cards.  

 

Oh wow! That's a lot of testing 

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, Mercian said:

At the moment though, my laptop is banjaxed (I am currently trying to un-break it), so I am limited to trying to type with an iPad (#Fool’sErrand).

 

Aside: It's always good to have at least one Bluetooth keyboard around, considering it can be paired on demand with just about any standalone general computing device (laptop, tablet, phone handset) and even smart TVs and such these days.

[Mercian]

15 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

Aside: It's always good to have at least one Bluetooth keyboard around, considering it can be paired on demand with just about any standalone general computing device (laptop, tablet, phone handset) and even smart TVs and such these days.

Thank you for this advice - I am now going to ‘invest’ in acquiring one 

[arcfide]

To expand on my own experiences, I have a tendency to reswab and recompare inks that I have constantly, going back and forth on the best one for me. I'm a 1 pen 1 ink sort of guy at heart, and so most of my research is to try to reach that space, even if I never quite succeed. What has happened is that I end up constantly refining my feelings about my collection of inks over time, and I try a lot of different combinations of things, until I start to converge on something that makes me happiest over the long term. This usually requires re-evaluation every so often to see if I still feel that way. 

 

That means some of my bottles of ink are emptying out mostly be virtue of being constantly swabbed against other inks to compare. 

 

Paper makes such a huge difference, which means that you have a combination of pen, paper, and ink to compare against, and that means a whole lot of combinations to compare against one another.

[amberleadavis]

4 hours ago, NodariPi said:

 

Oh wow! That's a lot of testing 

 

Oh, that's over years! That was 2013 for the one that I showed.  I used to use these cards to keep track of how often I used a particular ink and which pens I used with that ink.