Sailor Pro Gear Slim vs Pelikan M400

[Waltz For Zizi]

I'm Thinking of buying a Sailor Pro Gear Slim. Compared to a Pelikan m400, buildwise, is it comparable? Does it feel the same or "cheaper" to whomever has both.

Or what about the Sailor compared to a Pilot custom 92 or 74?

I personally feel that the Custom 74 is a sturdier pen compared to both Pelikan m400 and Custom 92. It feels more sturdier in the hand. The other two feel more fragile, not that I had any problem with any of them.

[inkstainedruth]

I have both and like both.  Major differences are the shape and the fill system -- the Pro Gear Slim is a c/c pen, and the M400 is a piston filler.  I have more M400s and M405s, simply because I liked the looks of the ones I have.  Only have one Pro Gear Slim, and stalled for a long time because of the price of the LE one (I have one of the Purple Cosmos pens) was more than the cost of a regular color; when the next year's LE color (Red Dwarf?) came out, I looked online and found the Purple Cosmos for a decent price at Cult Pens.  

I have small (girly) hands and have no trouble with the size or weight of EITHER the Pro Gear Slim or my two 1911S pens, any more than with the size and weight of the M400s and M405s (or, for that matter, with the size and weight of the M600 Violet and White).

I don't have any experience with a Pilot Custom 74 or 92, so I can't say one way or the other.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[TitoThePencilPimp]

Both are great pens. Very different writers. I prefer the nib of the sailors, but prefer the piston filling system of Pelikan. That is why I have more Pelikans than Sailors. There is an issue with the Sailors. The cap band is prone to brassing. 

[voltron]

Pro Gear is of course a nice pen but personally I have always been attracted more towards Pelikan pens so I rate that higher. The flawless piston filling mechanism & easily replaceable nib units in Pelikan Mxxx series pens combined with smooth, wet nibs are some of the factors behind Pelikan's phenomenal success as a brand. Please keep in mind that Pelikan gold nibs usually run wider compared to other European brands e.g a Pelikan F is going to feel closer to a medium nib in other European pens. Japanese nibs on the other hand are miss-marked one size smaller than European nibs of equivalent tipping size.

[Lennart Wennberg]

Both are very good pens, but if I had to choose I personally prefer the Sailor Professional Gear Slim and I will tell why:

I. I find the Sailor nibs to be more precise. Perhaps it's because I prefer finer nibs...

II. In my experience the Pelikan caps have had a tendency to unscrew in my shirtpocket. The Sailor caps are more secure.

III. The Pelikan clip have had a tendency to catch the fabric when I take off my sweatshirt, which has resulted in the Pelikans becoming airborne. 

IV. I have had cracks in Pelikan caps, but never on a Sailor cap.

 

NB: My subjecitve observations and opinions. Both are great pens.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Lennart Wennberg
Edited for font size

[A Smug Dill]

4 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Does it feel the same or "cheaper" to whomever has both.

 

Are you talking about a “blind” test where only the material (density, thickness, etc.), finish, and perhaps the geometry and weight balance of the pen's body impart a different impression of value or worth, to the user who is holding the pen with eyes strictly closed (or while blindfolded)?

 

I have more than one of each of those pen models; and I'd say, no, the Sailor Professional Gear Slim doesn't not feel cheaper in the hand, ignoring all else (e.g. appearance, nib performance).

 

4 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

Or what about the Sailor compared to a Pilot custom 92 or 74?

 

I dislike the Pilot Custom 74, and got rid of both of mine. It doesn't compare favourably to either the Sailor Professional Gear Slim or Pelikan M400. I'll even take a Pelikan M200 over a Pilot Custom 74 any day. I don't have and never had a Pilot Custom Heritage 92. It's a piston-filler, which is no value-add from my perspective, so I never bothered with trying one when they cost more than the Pilot CH91 with the same type of nibs and flat ends.

 

4 hours ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

I personally feel that the Custom 74 is a sturdier pen compared to both Pelikan m400 and Custom 92.

 

I have two Pilot Custom Heritage 91 pens. It feels ever so slightly sturdier than both the Sailor Professional Gear Slim and the Pelikan M400.

 

[Buzz_130]

I have both and love them for what they are. The Pelikan's perfect 1.5 twist to remove the cap, great piston filler, and wet nib make it a pleasure to put ink on paper. I have a LE Pro Gear, and the feel of the precise nib is the opposite of the Pelikan. I also never hesitate to put a Japanese nanopigment ink (Platinum or Sailor variants) and lay down a thin, precise line. You already have good examples of modern German and Japanese pens, and I would argue your choice will come down to the inks. you like to use and the feel in your hand.

[Waltz For Zizi]

5 hours ago, Buzz_130 said:

I have both and love them for what they are. The Pelikan's perfect 1.5 twist to remove the cap, great piston filler, and wet nib make it a pleasure to put ink on paper. I have a LE Pro Gear, and the feel of the precise nib is the opposite of the Pelikan. I also never hesitate to put a Japanese nanopigment ink (Platinum or Sailor variants) and lay down a thin, precise line. You already have good examples of modern German and Japanese pens, and I would argue your choice will come down to the inks. you like to use and the feel in your hand.

Is this a vintage Pelikan that you are talking about?

I just checked all my Pelikan pens (10 in number), and 8 of them take a little more than 3 quarters to uncap, 1 takes almost a full turn, and one takes just a little more than half a turn. All my Pelikan pens are modern.

[Bo Bo Olson]

23 hours ago, voltron said:

Please keep in mind that Pelikan gold nibs usually run wider compared to other European brands e.g a Pelikan F is going to feel closer to a medium nib in other European pens.

Post '97....before that in the regular flex era of '82-97 or the factory stubbed semi-flex '50-65 Pelikan era, those nibs are 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

I like the old nibs. They both write in a nice clean line.

 

I suggest buying a '56-65 400nn holding @ 2.0 ml ink. I recommend the 400nn over the '50-55 400-400n, in the 400nn came in in '56 after Plastic Gasket 2.0 came out. The same plastic gasket that is still being used.

 

 

I do like the '82-97 regular flex Pelikan nibs (similar to the Japanese 'soft' nibs) They are dryer than the semi-flex nibs, and are therefore better for two toned shading inks.

 

Stubbed semi-flex nibs of the '50-65 era are great for Line Variation On Demand.

 

With a modern 200/400/600 you can use both the vintage and semi-vintage  nibs. '82-20017/18 the 200's nibs were narrower than thee gold nibs and tear dropped tipped. Then in 2017/18 the 200's nibs became fat and blobby like the rest of the Pelikans. See my signature. Still a regular flex nib though.

 

I have no idea where the OP got an idea that a Pelikan is a delicate pen.

The advantage is one can put the width and the era's nibs on the 200/400&600 pens.............

Pilot has a mod where the sides of the nibs are ground away....to = the semi-flex of a '50-65 Pelikan.

So you are going to need two Japanese pens at least.

 

To tell you the truth, the changing of Pelikan nibs is always told as an Pelikan advantage....but most folks just keep buying Pelikans until they have flock of Pelikans too big for wild life Sanctuaries.

So much for delicate.

 

I have done it....had a semi-flex B on my 605 for a few years, until I had the fat and blobby modern nib stubbed to a 1.0/B.

 

One needs a Japanese nib if one prints in the nib is designed for a tiny printed script.....or if one wants a super skinny line.

 

If one writes in flowing cursive, the western nibs are designed for that.

 

Just think if you bought a used 200 with a EF your urge for narrow is covered well enough.

And you could find an older narrower tear dropped nib in a lovely M for two toned shading inks. Or if you wish to use classic rough papers like laid or linen effect.

 

You will get both sets of pens...in you have a life time.

 

In either case used will do well and you will save so much money you can buy good to better papers and a fine assortment of inks. Both are rugged enough to be great old used pens.....vintage or semi-vintage.

 

In 13 years I bought some 70 or so pens....all but 3-4 were used. Had I made the mistake of buying new....I'd have 5...........if that.

 

 

[TitoThePencilPimp]

What will be your main use for the pen? My geography is garbage. So I am thinking Romania? If so, you may find a nice vintage pelikan at a good price, if you look at local shops that sell vintage pens, or maybe make a thread of asking of local dealers in your area. 

 

You may be happy with a pelikan m200. The steel nibs are just as good as the gold nib m400. 

 

Just checked my Sailors. The ones that show brassing on the cap band are the ones that come with the 14k nib. Not the ones with the 21k nib.

 

 

 

 

[TitoThePencilPimp]

23 minutes ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Post '97....before that in the regular flex era of '82-97 or the factory stubbed semi-flex '50-65 Pelikan era, those nibs are 1/2 a width narrower than modern.

I like the old nibs. They both write in a nice clean line.

 

I suggest buying a '56-65 400nn holding @ 2.0 ml ink. I recommend the 400nn over the '50-55 400-400n, in the 400nn came in in '56 after Plastic Gasket 2.0 came out. The same plastic gasket that is still being used.

 

 

I do like the '82-97 regular flex Pelikan nibs (similar to the Japanese 'soft' nibs) They are dryer than the semi-flex nibs, and are therefore better for two toned shading inks.

 

Stubbed semi-flex nibs of the '50-65 era are great for Line Variation On Demand.

 

With a modern 200/400/600 you can use both the vintage and semi-vintage  nibs. '82-20017/18 the 200's nibs were narrower than thee gold nibs and tear dropped tipped. Then in 2017/18 the 200's nibs became fat and blobby like the rest of the Pelikans. See my signature. Still a regular flex nib though.

 

I have no idea where the OP got an idea that a Pelikan is a delicate pen.

The advantage is one can put the width and the era's nibs on the 200/400&600 pens.............

Pilot has a mod where the sides of the nibs are ground away....to = the semi-flex of a '50-65 Pelikan.

So you are going to need two Japanese pens at least.

 

To tell you the truth, the changing of Pelikan nibs is always told as an Pelikan advantage....but most folks just keep buying Pelikans until they have flock of Pelikans too big for wild life Sanctuaries.

So much for delicate.

 

I have done it....had a semi-flex B on my 605 for a few years, until I had the fat and blobby modern nib stubbed to a 1.0/B.

 

One needs a Japanese nib if one prints in the nib is designed for a tiny printed script.....or if one wants a super skinny line.

 

If one writes in flowing cursive, the western nibs are designed for that.

 

Just think if you bought a used 200 with a EF your urge for narrow is covered well enough.

And you could find an older narrower tear dropped nib in a lovely M for two toned shading inks. Or if you wish to use classic rough papers like laid or linen effect.

 

You will get both sets of pens...in you have a life time.

 

In either case used will do well and you will save so much money you can buy good to better papers and a fine assortment of inks. Both are rugged enough to be great old used pens.....vintage or semi-vintage.

 

In 13 years I bought some 70 or so pens....all but 3-4 were used. Had I made the mistake of buying new....I'd have 5...........if that.

 

 

I would have to disagree with the notion that if one writes flowing cursive, then a Western nib is designed for it. I have poor handwriting, and only write in cursive (no print), and the Sailors make my cursive writing neater. I actually prefer the Sailors to any Pelikan nib (past and present). I have no experience with the heart shaped breather hole Pelikans. So maybe these are better.

[mtcn77]

3 minutes ago, TitoThePencilPimp said:

I have no experience with the heart shaped breather hole Pelikans. So maybe these are better.

It is a flexing feature if you are into it. I ruined a Kaweco nib due to tine shifting on one another, cannot decide when to post it for servicing.

[Waltz For Zizi]

6 minutes ago, TitoThePencilPimp said:

What will be your main use for the pen? My geography is garbage. So I am thinking Romania? If so, you may find a nice vintage pelikan at a good price, if you look at local shops that sell vintage pens, or maybe make a thread of asking of local dealers in your area. 

 

You may be happy with a pelikan m200. The steel nibs are just as good as the gold nib m400. 

 

Just checked my Sailors. The ones that show brassing on the cap band are the ones that come with the 14k nib. Not the ones with the 21k nib.

 

 

 

 

Actually I do have Pelikan pens (11 of them). I was asking about the "feel" of the Sailor compared to the Pelikan so I would get an ideea how the Sailor is compared to something I know, I wasn't trying to decide which pen to buy, only if I should buy the Sailor or not. I already have over 100 pens, but no Sailors yet because I only bought pens locally and no shop was carying them, but recently some shops began importing them. I was wondering if it would be worth buying one or not (for me at least).

[TitoThePencilPimp]

Just now, Waltz For Zizi said:

Actually I do have Pelikan pens (11 of them). I was asking about the "feel" of the Sailor compared to the Pelikan so I would get an ideea how the Sailor is compared to something I know, I wasn't trying to decide which pen to buy, only if I should buy the Sailor or not. I already have over 100 pens, but no Sailors yet because I only bought pens locally and no shop was carying them, but recently some shops began importing them. I was wondering if it would be worth buying one or not (for me at least).

That is subjected as to whether one should own a Sailor, or any pen for that matter. But yes, the Sailor would write different than the Pelikan's you own.

[bunnspecial]

On 1/21/2022 at 2:35 PM, Lennart Wennberg said:

II. In my experience the Pelikan caps have had a tendency to unscrew in my shirtpocket. The Sailor caps are more secure.

 

When pen discussions come up, shirt pocket carry is something that often only gets mentioned in passing, but given a typical use for me it's a big consideration. I wear sports coats a lot too, and if I'm not carrying in my shirt pocket I often go to the inside left lapel pocket.

 

I've ALWAYS had issues with Pelikan caps coming unscrewed. This is on pens ranging from my 205 I used for years to my vintage 100 and some 400NNs I had for a while, on up to a couple of modern 400s and an 800(plus a modern 101N). Without fail, they seem to come unscrewed with any significant pocket time. I have ruined a few jackets when one landed nib down in the bottom of the pocket.

 

I've run into it with other vintage pens, including 50s Montblancs and also the Vacumatics I use a lot now, although it seems less of an issue in my jacket pocket than my shirt pocket.

 

On the other hand, modern Montblancs don't come unscrewed. My modern Duofolds don't. The other modern screw caps I've had don't come loose. Pelikan mostly seems the lone one out in it.

 

BTW, I just checked every Pelikan on my desk now-vintage 100, 90s 400, and modern 101N. All take almost exactly 1 turn.

[A Smug Dill]

4 minutes ago, bunnspecial said:

The other modern screw caps I've had don't come loose. Pelikan mostly seems the lone one out in it.

 

I've never encountered it with Sailor's screw-caps, or Pilot's, or Platinum's for that matter. Only with the caps on my Pelikan piston-fillers.

 

1 hour ago, Waltz For Zizi said:

… I wasn't trying to decide which pen to buy, only if I should buy the Sailor or not. I already have over 100 pens, but no Sailors yet because I only bought pens locally and no shop was carying them, but recently some shops began importing them. I was wondering if it would be worth buying one or not (for me at least).

 

I'm not sure I understand, then. If you only buy pens from local stockists, and some shops are now importing them, then why ask someone else to answer a question of kinaesthetic, subjective assessment — with double the ‘error’, when they'd be comparing subjective assessment of two different things — when you can just visit a local stockist and ask to take one in hand and judge for yourself? You wouldn't even need to compare it against the Pelikan M400 as a frame of reference, when you hold the relevant frame of reference internally. Whether it feels too “cheap” to be worth buying (from your perspective as the consumer with the money to spend) seems to be independent of how the Pelikan M400 feels in hand, although of course it's your prerogative to compare them while in the shop handling a Sailor Professional Gear Slim.

 

[bunnspecial]

16 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

 

I've never encountered it with Sailor's screw-caps, or Pilot's, or Platinum's for that matter. Only with the caps on my Pelikan piston-fillers.

 

 

I've owned one screw cap from each of those respective brands-a 1911L, a CH92, and a 3776. The caps on all of those were/are very secure.

[langere]

Yes, that is the big issue with Pelikans, that the caps come loose  - I've actually lost a 400 that way - at the end of the day, only the cap remained tucked into my shirt.

 

Be that as it may, if you haven't experienced a Sailor, it is well worth it to buy one and try it out!

 

Erick

[Arcticart]

As far as build quality goes I can't fault either. The Pelikan posts better as the cap is lighter. The PGS becomes ever so slightly heavier at the back when posted. Due to the soft cap liner in the PGS, capping feels a bit "mushy" but the cap stays on securely. The Pelikan cap can randomly loosen, even when sitting in a box. Personally I'd select based on what you're looking from the nib. I lack personal experience with modern Pelikan gold nibs, so I can't help there with comparisons.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Get a 400nn, it has a two click close cap; so won't untwist.

 

I will admit to having no Pelikan twist open in my pocket.