shellac - how long good in bottle?

[markh]

I've seen (large) cans of shellac in paint stores. They have an expiration date on them.

I have never purchased one of these - based on how often I replace a sac, etc... a single quart tin would last several lifetimes.

So I have a few of the small bottles, purchased over time from a few different vendors, at pen shows, etc.... They don't come with expiration dates, not to mention I have no idea how long they were in a can before being repacked into a small repair bottle with brush.

 

So... how long are these good for??

If they have been around too long, is there a way to tell. Is there something to notice??

thx,

Mark

 

[bunnspecial]

Maybe not the right answer, but I've been repairing watches for years and, somewhat controversially(being told I'm wrong by several) I use my own very "thick" formulation of liquid shellac for cementing jewels in watches where required(most repair sources will tell you to heat the part and melt solid shellac into place-I apply my goopy liquid, let it dry, and then heat to adjust positioning). I do NOT use that for pen sacs, but rather use premixed stuff from the hardware store on sacs.

 

In any case, with my watch shellac, I've used a 35mm film cannister for years. When it's low, I toss in some alcohol and shellac flakes. If it's too thick I add more alcohol, and too thin I add more shellac.

 

Maybe not a definitive answer, but I've never actually dumped and refilled that particular film can.

 

I should probably make up my own for pen repairs, as the repairmen might disagree with me but commercial Zinser brand shellac seems awfully thin to me. I still have most of that 2lbs of orange flake shellac I bought probably in 2009, though.

[Ron Z]

I don't disagree with you at all.  Look at my blog post on "the duct tape of pen repair."  We are not using the shellac to finish furniture.  It isn't that critical.   If it dries, it'll work.

 

When Richard Binder and I were in the Sheaffer service center just before it closed in 2008,  on the floor in the fountain pen service station was a gallon can of Zinsser orange shellac. In 30+ years of repairing pens, I have never mixed shellac from shellac flakes to secure a sac.  I have not had problems with "aging" shellac failing to hold sacs in place on the sac nipple.  One guy in toting his custom mixed shellac said, "But it's thicker."  OK, just leave the bottle uncovered for a while to let the alcohol evaporate, and you'll get the same thing.

 

If you can, buy the half pint of shellac at a hardware store.  You will never use a even a quart on your own. 

 

 

[bunnspecial]

1 hour ago, Ron Z said:

 

When Richard Binder and I were in the Sheaffer service center just before it closed in 2008,  on the floor in the fountain pen service station was a gallon can of Zinsser orange shellac. In 30+ years of repairing pens, I have never mixed shellac from shellac flakes to secure a sac.  I have not had problems with "aging" shellac failing to hold sacs in place on the sac nipple.  One guy in toting his custom mixed shellac said, "But it's thicker."  OK, just leave the bottle uncovered for a while to let the alcohol evaporate, and you'll get the same thing.

 

Ron, I use the hardware store stuff precisely because you'd said this in a blog post and several other places. I'll add the caveat that what I have is blonde shellac rather than orange because that's all they had in stock when I bought my can. I've just read comments from other repair people who insist you mix your own, but I'd take Sheaffer's word for it.

 

I may prefer thicker for other non-pen applications, but I've found that the out of the can consistency also turns it into a nice lubricant when you're sliding the sac over the nipple.

 

 

[APM]

So interesting topic.

I was debating wether to buy a "special order" of Shellac from a consumables supplier, or go with the shellac flakes! Thankfully we can get the blonde flakes here in Durban, South Africa! 

Another question I want to experiment with creating an eye dropper from a Sheaffer Imperial. The pen has a threaded cap on its butt end (to be sealed with silicone grease) and also a breather hole (jammed the pointy tip of a tooth pick in to here). Wanted to seal off the wood with a dollop of shellac just as extra insuarence in case I need to fly again for work or everyday bumps etc.

 

One question I have

1. Should I only use denatured alcohol (one site mentioned 1600 proof - is this the same for ink sac use)?

2. What proportion should I mix the alcohol with the flakes? 

 

Thanks in advance!

Aubrey

[lionelc]

1.  use denatured alcohol aka methylated spirits

2.  3lb cut 

[es9]

Is there a functional difference between orange and blonde shellac? If not, is there a reason folks prefer one to another? 

[pen lady]

I've been using shellac bought from a hardware store for years too. I just fill my little bottle from the big can, and I clean the bottle threads up with acetone.

 

[dipper]

Wikipedia has an article titled "Shellac". The link below goes to one of the reference sources cited. The quoted paragraph below that is copied directly from the Wikipedia page.

 

I really like the idea (in both sources) of testing shellac before use. Easy to do occasionally, quick, and gives a definitive result for your particular bottle of Shellac.

 

https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-instrument-finishing-and-finish-repair/how-and-why-to-mix-fresh-shellac/

 

 

Wikipedia quote:

Liquid shellac has a limited shelf life (about 1 year), so is sold in dry form for dissolution before use. Liquid shellac sold in hardware stores is often marked with the production (mixing) date, so the consumer can know whether the shellac inside is still good. Some manufacturers (e.g., Zinsser) have ceased labeling shellac with the production date, but the production date may be discernible from the production lot code. Alternatively, old shellac may be tested to see if it is still usable: a few drops on glass should dry to a hard surface in roughly 15 minutes. Shellac that remains tacky for a long time is no longer usable. 

[APM]

On 4/8/2022 at 1:09 PM, lionelc said:

1.  use denatured alcohol aka methylated spirits

2.  3lb cut 

Much appreciated - thanks for the reply mate!

[APM]

On 4/8/2022 at 3:14 PM, pen lady said:

I've been using shellac bought from a hardware store for years too. I just fill my little bottle from the big can, and I clean the bottle threads up with acetone.

 

Awesome! Thanks for that!! Useful!!

[Number99]

「3 lb cut」

 

This is not a technical question. I will ask you who is reading now.

 No matter how much I research, I don't understand the meaning of 「3 lb cut」.

 How is it displayed in the metric system?

 I can understand if it is g / ml.

 please.

 Thank you in advance.

 

[Ron Z]

There's a conversion app for iOS devices - "convert" .  It converts any one of a number of parameters - volume, length, speed, weight etc. and very simple to use.  Something like that will make it easy for you to sort things out.

[Number99]

42 minutes ago, Ron Z said:

There's a conversion app for iOS devices - "convert" .  It converts any one of a number of parameters - volume, length, speed, weight etc. and very simple to use.  Something like that will make it easy for you to sort things out.

Thank you very much.

 

 I know if it's weights and measures. However, this phrase seems to be an idiomatic expression of slang.

 Does it mean 3 : 1?

 

[Number99]

37 minutes ago, Number99 said:

Thank you very much.

 

 I know if it's weights and measures. However, this phrase seems to be an idiomatic expression of slang.

 Does it mean 3 : 1?

 

 

I found a shellac dilution chart.

Is it a phrase that expresses one shellac standard in the United States?

 It may have been a technical term.

 Thank you.

https://www.shellac.net/PoundCutChart.html

 

 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Number99

[lionelc]

if you are using metric (like me) - i use 18mg of shellac flakes in 50ml of methylated spirits, you can increase the amount of shellac carefully to get a thicker product.  too thin and it just drips away, too thick and it's like painting on grease.  50ml of this stuff seems to last forever.

[Number99]

I forgot that the result is completely different depending on whether you add 18 g of shellac to denatured alcohol to make a 50 ml solution or add 18 g of shellac to 50 ml of denatured alcohol.

 The correct answer is to put 18g of shellac in a 50ml container and then fill the 50ml container with a solvent（denatured alcohol）.

 

 thank you for making sure.

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Number99

[ia42]

From the webz I learned that "3 pound cut" means 3 pounds of shellac per gallon of methanol. Metric is so much simpler

 

Here is a different question though, must it be methanol? I have ethanol at home for mixing home made liquers, it's 95% alcohol, which I believe translates to 190 proof in American terms. Any reason it would not work?

[Number99]

3 hours ago, ia42 said:

From the webz I learned that "3 pound cut" means 3 pounds of shellac per gallon of methanol. Metric is so much simpler

 

Here is a different question though, must it be methanol? I have ethanol at home for mixing home made liquers, it's 95% alcohol, which I believe translates to 190 proof in American terms. Any reason it would not work?

I have a question because the concentration is very different.

 The linked "Shellac.net" I pasted notes that the finished shellac solution is 1 gallon, is that wrong?

 (Meaning to add alcohol to 3 pound of shellac to make 1 gallon shellac solution) 

 

Simply adding 3 pounds of shellac to 1 gallon of alcohol does not make it 1 gallon.

 

I apologize if I quote the wrong reference.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Number99

[FarmBoy]

A 3 pound cut is like paste. Better closer to a 1-1.5 pound cut. Use denatured alcohol. 
 

2 Oz shellac to 16 Oz DA for a one pound cut and adjust to the thickness you like.