Need Help!!! for choosing flex pen

[KingAcme]

Heyyy guys and gals,

I'm currently looking to buy a flex pen good for daily writing as well as a bit of line variation.

 

Properties I'm looking for:

1. Easily observable line variation when I flex it (I don't need Spencerian, but a good bit of line variation is desirable)

2. No railroading please

3. Compatible with inks with slightly poorer flow, eg diamine inks (I know diamine isn't the worst, but my point is just don't limit me to Montblanc and Iroshizuku inks)

4. Smooth and soft writing experience (the smoother the better, no feedback please)

 

I'm currently looking at:

1. 743 FA (with modified feed)

2. 742 FA

3. Justus 95 F

4. Santini Italia Libra F Flex

5. Stipula Etruria Wild Honey V-Flex

 

My pen shop nearby doesn't carry any of the above pens, so I won't be able to try them out, which is why I would like some advice about which pen would probably be best.

If there any other suggestions, please tell me as well. 

Price is not a concern as as long as it's under 350USD.

Thanks guys!

 

PS Sterling silver pens from Grifos caught my eye yesterday XD. I know they don't offer flex pens, but does anyone know if Grifos steel nibs are smooth?

I know it's difficult to describe, maybe compare with Pilot, Lamy & platinum nibs?

[A Smug Dill]

7 minutes ago, KingAcme said:

I'm currently looking at:

1. 743 FA (with modified feed)

2. 742 FA

3. Justus 95 F

 

None of these sport ‘flex’ nibs; and they aren't being advertised by Pilot as having such. They are soft nibs. I wouldn't count on any of them giving you no kinaesthetic feedback whatsoever when writing. (I have a Pilot Custom 742 with FA nib and a Justus 95 with F nib.)

[BlueJ]

KingAcme,

How much experience do you have with flex or semi flex pens and nibs?

 

If not much, there are two inexpensive paths you can follow to educate yourself.

1. A dip pen holder and pointed flexible dip nibs, e.g. Brause Rose, Zebra G.

2. Inexpensive India-made fountain pens with (semi) flex steel nibs like those from Fountain Pen Revolution or Noodler's.

 

If you have some experience already, perhaps let us know what you have tried so far and how it didn't fulfill your needs.

 

Note that "smooth-no feedback" is pretty much incompatible with high line variation, since a very fine point is needed to make very thin lines when not flexing. The Indian nibs can be tolerably smooth but then they don't give as much variation.

[JosephKing]

Can you also talk about your paper perspective?

 

I want to recommend a dip pen, FPR ultra flex, and Desiderata, but before that, it should be said that flexed lines feather on less than ideal paper.

[KingAcme]

30 minutes ago, A Smug Dill said:

None of these sport ‘flex’ nibs; and they aren't being advertised by Pilot as having such. They are soft nibs. I wouldn't count on any of them giving you no kinaesthetic feedback whatsoever when writing. (I have a Pilot Custom 742 with FA nib and a Justus 95 with F nib.)

I understand that they won't be able to fully flex to the point of vintage nibs or where I can reliably write Spencerian script, which is why it's not what I'm looking for.

I just want a bit line variation in my letters to show a bit of character.

As for smoothness, which of the 2 would you say has the smoothest writing experience? In terms of daily writing and under flex?

 

20 minutes ago, BlueJ said:

How much experience do you have with flex or semi flex pens and nibs?

I've tried Zebra-G nibs and the Conklin Omniflex.

I found the Zebra-G too scratchy & railroads

The Omniflex just doesn't give sufficient line variation under writing pressure & railroads

 

7 minutes ago, JosephKing said:

Can you also talk about your paper perspective?

I like to use Tomoe River paper for calligraphy, but I do have to use normal laser paper for daily writing. 

I d hope that my nib can be used in a daily setting as well.

Edit: I should probably add that no feathering was seen when I was using my Zebra-G nib on both types of paper, so feathering shouldn't be an issue.

 

Thanks guys!

Edited December 14, 2021 by KingAcme

[A Smug Dill]

2 hours ago, KingAcme said:

I just want a bit line variation in my letters to show a bit of character.

 

My (brief) write-up of the Pilot Justus 95's performance, from two years ago:

• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/347697-pilot-justus-95-m/?do=findComment&comment=4274077

See also:

• https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/gallery/image/2303-writing-samples-from-four-gold-nibbed-pilot-pens/

 

2 hours ago, KingAcme said:

As for smoothness, which of the 2 would you say has the smoothest writing experience? In terms of daily writing and under flex?

 

I can't answer that (and, to be perfectly frank, don't want to try), sorry. I don't use those pens to produce writing in Spencerian or any script of the sort, and while I understand there is a non-trivial amount of interest from a minority (in relation to the global scope) of fountain pen hobbyists in that sort of form, I'm not interested in adopting it as a ‘common’ frame of reference for discussion, instead of treating it with due respect as a niche interest I don't share. If I'm to make pen strokes “under flex”, it certainly wouldn't be in order to produce what practitioners of Spencerian aim/want to produce, so my version of “under flex” would not mean what someone else assumes it to mean anyway.

 

The perceived smoothness will depend a lot on how far you want to push the range of line width variation, as well as the ink and paper with/on which you choose to write. Furthermore, while you've stated upfront that you want “no feedback please”, I dislike pens and nibs that write too smoothly, because I need a suitable amount of kinaesthetic feedback to make precise (distinct and separate) pen strokes, especially if I also want to control the apparent “line variation” in the writing outcome.

 

I don't enjoy using Pilot's size 10, 14K gold FA nibs. I had a Custom Heritage 912 with one of those nibs (and the factory-installed default plastic feed), and it frustrated me so much due to the poor ‘springback’ ability/speed, I ultimately pulled it out of the gripping section and then snapped it with my fingers. Much later, I bought a used Custom 742 off another forum member, who had already replaced the feed on it with an ebonite feed made by Flexible Nib Factory, and I still don't enjoy using it; I think I've merely learnt to tolerate a wider range of nibs and performance characteristics two years hence.

 

So, to me, the Pilot Justus 95 is the superior writing instrument. But then, I write with a light hand usually, and look for (and enjoy producing) line variation that isn't garish and obtrusive, unless I'm make seriously slow and deliberate pen strokes to get “special effects” from a soft or flex nib, which is the opposite of expressive writing that shows my personality in the form of the output. Assuming that the nib grinds on both pen models are equally as smooth, that the Justus 95's nib “flexes” less makes the writing experience smoother; if you elastically deform the nib such that the tines splay, or the contact area between nib tipping and page surface increases, then there is going to be more friction and thus less “smooth”.

[Karmachanic]

You may find this helpful:

 

 

[Tas]

My advice? Start cheap and work your way up the seemingly never ending ladder . . .

My journey began, like many, with Noodlers and I still swear by my Nib Creepers and Ahabs. What I call proper working pens.

My journey really ended with a Pilot Namiki Falcon SF - although I'd love an SEF. (I'd also love a Justus) . . .  but hey.

eBay may also be your friend. I was lucky enough to find a true vintage flex Wahl Eversharp for very little money only to realise it's actually too springy 🙄 for my everyday writing.

Good luck. Let us know which direction you ended up going in. 🙂

[Detman101]

4 hours ago, Tas said:

My advice? Start cheap and work your way up the seemingly never ending ladder . . .

My journey began, like many, with Noodlers and I still swear by my Nib Creepers and Ahabs. What I call proper working pens.

My journey really ended with a Pilot Namiki Falcon SF - although I'd love an SEF. (I'd also love a Justus) . . .  but hey.

eBay may also be your friend. I was lucky enough to find a true vintage flex Wahl Eversharp for very little money only to realise it's actually too springy 🙄 for my everyday writing.

Good luck. Let us know which direction you ended up going in. 🙂

Tas presents a very good point.
I took that path as well, starting out with a Noodlers Ahab and replacing the flex nib on it with an FPR Ultra-Flex nib.
Then moving up to Penbbs pens and swapping out the nib with an FPR Ultra-Flex nib again.
Then I purchased a vintage "Mabie Todd & Co - SWAN" and found it too small for my hands...though the 14k "Vintage Flex" is better than anything before or since.
My final flex-pen purchase was an Opus-88 Demonstrator with the "Secretary of de Flex" flex nib in it.
However, much like Tas...I have found that I do not always want to write in "Flex" style...and require a stiffer and less scratchy nib for everyday writing.
I will admit that the allure of "Flex nibs" is indeed strong, and the flourished beauty of calligraphy a marvel to behold...but once you reach your estimated goal...you'll realize that Flex isn't everything. And also that you have to be so much more delicate and careful with your flex nibs if you plan to use them daily as I did.
I've since moved on to Oblique Stub nibs and may eventually find a mildly flexible version to sate my sporadic "Calligraphy" desires.
 

[BlueJ]

Several people mentioned the FPR "Ultraflex" nib. It is available from the Flexible Nib Factory with an ebonite feed in a Jowo or PenBBS compatible nib unit housing and provides a good compromise of line variation with smoothness and reliability.

 

Detman mentioned oblique stubs. Something like a Pelikan 400NN with OF or OM nib (or just F or EF if obliques don't appeal) could be the ticket for KA. Those vintage German pens have a touch of softness or flex (hope BBO doesn't chime in with his flex hierarchy again) that combines well with the directional variation of a stub or oblique if that type is desired.

[Detman101]

8 minutes ago, BlueJ said:

Several people mentioned the FPR "Ultraflex" nib. It is available from the Flexible Nib Factory with an ebonite feed in a Jowo or PenBBS compatible nib unit housing and provides a good compromise of line variation with smoothness and reliability.

 

Detman mentioned oblique stubs. Something like a Pelikan 400NN with OF or OM nib (or just F or EF if obliques don't appeal) could be the ticket for KA. Those vintage German pens have a touch of softness or flex (hope BBO doesn't chime in with his flex hierarchy again) that combines well with the directional variation of a stub or oblique if that type is desired.

Much agreed. "Flexible Nib Factory" (FNF) is a valued resource.
Thread originator "KingAcme"....please, please take heed to the warning BlueJ offered when he mentions being careful of the description of "Flex" offered by "Bobo Olsen".
BBO has his own particular view/measurement of nib-flexibility with about 30 different levels of flex that will only serve to confuse and depress the newfound Flex-Adventurer. Not saying that he is wrong...just that no one else can interpret his understanding of "Nib Flex" as it is limited to ONLY his own personal experience.

[KingAcme]

14 hours ago, Tas said:

My journey began, like many, with Noodlers and I still swear by my Nib Creepers and Ahabs.

 

10 hours ago, Detman101 said:

My final flex-pen purchase was an Opus-88 Demonstrator with the "Secretary of de Flex" flex nib in it.

I haven't had the chance to try the secretary, but I did have the chance to experience the Noodlers before, but I do know that both are steel nibs.

The Noodles was a bit too scratchy for me, though it could be an individual QC issue.

But because of that, I'm trying to look for one with a gold nib, because I heard that gold nibs are supposed to be smoother and softer than their steel counterparts?

 

As for starting out with cheap pens, I have used the Jinhao with Zebra-G nib franken pen for some time, and I find that the writing experience is generally ok, but the railroading problem is really a pain, which is why I've started to look at the higher end pens.

I heard the railroading in the Stipula & modified 743 FA are minimal, but I don't know if the Justus can take a modified feed?

 

[A Smug Dill]

1 hour ago, KingAcme said:

But because of that, I'm trying to look for one with a gold nib, because I heard that gold nibs are supposed to be smoother and softer than their steel counterparts?

 

There is no reason, or logic, to gold nibs writing smoother than steel nibs, when you're writing with the tipping material which is not gold, but often harder metal than steel, that is welded onto the tip of the nib.

 

1 hour ago, KingAcme said:

I don't know if the Justus can take a modified feed?

 

Just about any fountain pen can take a modified/replacement feed (of the same or different material to that of the factory-fitted one).

 

Whether you can just buy one off the shelf, order one from a producer such as Flexible Nib Factory, or share one between the Justus 95 and a different model of (Pilot?) pen are an entirely different thing.

[AmandaW]

1 hour ago, KingAcme said:

the railroading problem is really a pain, which is why I've started to look at the higher end pens

 

The choice of ink is part of the railroading equation! Some do, some don't, in the same pen. For example, I found Noodler's Burma Road Brown to be better than Bulletproof Black in a Desiderata pen fitted with a Zebra-G nib.

[DvdRiet]

6 hours ago, KingAcme said:

I heard that gold nibs are supposed to be smoother and softer

 

Softer, yes, but smoother? No. As Dill mentioned already, the smoothness of the nib is determined by the tipping material and that is usually the same very hard metal alloy on both steel and gold. The 'softness' of gold simply means that there is usually more give in the nib, as in a bit less of a rock solid nail, if you will. It does not necessarily mean it will flex more (as in tine spread), just that it will most often tend to be a more flexible nib in general (the 'give' part). Also note that this is *not always* true of every gold nib. The 18k nib on my Parker Sonnet is most definitely a nail!

[Al-fresco]

There's also titanium - this Wet and Wise 'Edge' was made for me by Nabi in Belgium.  I specified a Bock #6 Titanium Fine nib and I'm very, very happy with it.  Nabi makes these pens by hand and has a lead time of 2 to 3 months but his work is excellent and he's a pleasure to deal with. The sample (below) was provided with the pen.

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[Grayspoole]

KingAcme, you have a lot of excellent advice here.  I’m wondering if you are comfortable tuning and smoothing your own nibs? If not, you may find it useful to acquire these skills. You are seeking a writing/calligraphy instrument that will perform according to a set of fairly specific, even rigorous, requirements, and I don’t think there is a permanent, out of the box solution. No nib will remain perfect forever, even the abrasion of paper has an effect.

 

Of course, you will want to practice on inexpensive nibs first, including dip nibs. You might be able to fix the scratchiness of the Noodlers Ahab after all.

 

Good luck!

 

 

[Detman101]

43 minutes ago, Grayspoole said:

KingAcme, you have a lot of excellent advice here.  I’m wondering if you are comfortable tuning and smoothing your own nibs? If not, you may find it useful to acquire these skills. You are seeking a writing/calligraphy instrument that will perform according to a set of fairly specific, even rigorous, requirements, and I don’t think there is a permanent, out of the box solution. No nib will remain perfect forever, even the abrasion of paper has an effect.

 

Of course, you will want to practice on inexpensive nibs first, including dip nibs. You might be able to fix the scratchiness of the Noodlers Ahab after all.

 

Good luck!

 

 

This is the way...

[KingAcme]

Thanks for everyone's great advice!

 

11 hours ago, A Smug Dill said:

Whether you can just buy one off the shelf, order one from a producer such as Flexible Nib Factory, or share one between the Justus 95 and a different model of (Pilot?) pen are an entirely different thing.

There's really a generally much smaller pool of information available for the Justus than any other pen mentioned, but it caught my eyes because of the ability to adjust the nib to "Hard" mode might make it more suitable than the other soft/ flex nibs mentioned.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it's possible to pull out the nib for feed replacement without damaging the metal plate on top😰

If it can, it'll probably have a much higher rank on my current list.

 

2 hours ago, Grayspoole said:

and I don’t think there is a permanent, out of the box solution

I was hoping it won't come to this🥶, but I guess I'll watch a view vids and try it on my Zebra-G nibs first.

 

Maybe I'll get one of those higher-end soft/ flex pens after I got it down, and have found one that doesn't railroad like crazy (my Zebra-G & Noodlers pens always do, unfortunately)

[Detman101]

*delete*

Situation remedied.

🤠