EFNIR: KWZ Green Gold

[InkyProf]

(To which I should add that their customer service has been responsive and that I very much like the pen other than this, so I hope it turns out to be no big deal.)

[yazeh]

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

Santini Italia Nonagon.

Well I hope it's a well sealed pen, and a mixing ink problem.

 

[InkyProf]

Just now, yazeh said:

Well I hope it's a well sealed pen, and a mixing ink problem.

 

Thanks! 🙂 me too. 

[InkyProf]

After soaking, flushing, and refilling with Pelikan 4001 Königsblau, the Santini Italia doesn't dry out overnight. That doesn't really nail down the cause of the initial problem, and at some point, I'll try refilling this pen with KWZ Green Gold (and I'll also try the KWZ in another pen, too) to see what happens, but it reassures me that there's nothing wrong with the nib, or at least nothing so wrong with the nib that it plays poorly with all inks; and that frees me from wondering whether I'll have to send the pen back to Italy, which I'm calling a "win," because these days, you have to take them where you can find them...

[yazeh]

@InkyProfthat's good news. 👍 Now you need to test Green Gold in another pen and see if the ink is being naughty.

[LizEF]

8 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

After soaking, flushing, and refilling with Pelikan 4001 Königsblau, the Santini Italia doesn't dry out overnight. That doesn't really nail down the cause of the initial problem, and at some point, I'll try refilling this pen with KWZ Green Gold (and I'll also try the KWZ in another pen, too) to see what happens, but it reassures me that there's nothing wrong with the nib, or at least nothing so wrong with the nib that it plays poorly with all inks; and that frees me from wondering whether I'll have to send the pen back to Italy, which I'm calling a "win," because these days, you have to take them where you can find them...

If there was already dried ink in the feed, what appeared to be "drying out overnight" could simply have been clogs - when the dam is 90% complete, it doesn't take much to finish it...  Anywho, @yazeh has a good suggestion - put the ink in a pen you're familiar with and see how it goes.

[InkyProf]

Yep, that’s what I’ll do! As soon as I have a spot free in the “inked pen” tray. 🙂 and thanks to both of you!

[InkyProf]

Well, the pen didn't dry out overnight the first two nights, but it did over 36 hours, so now I'm declaring KWZ "not guilty" on all charges, and pursuing what I think is likely to turn into a nib exchange with Santini. There's an area of roughness in the last few mm of the nib slit -- I'm not going to post the photo here, but a picture taken through a loupe is pretty striking -- that I think is probably causing premature dryout right up near the tipping. Part of me is inclined to mutter "how did that ever pass QC?" -- but, to be fair, I think it passed because they tested it and it wrote smoothly; they didn't test it to see whether it dried out when left unused for a day and a half. That's not unreasonable: you can't factory test for every aspect of ongoing daily use. As long as it all works out in the end, I'll be happy. I'll just try not to think too much about the ultimate carbon footprint of this pen (or the whole collection, god forbid....)

[yazeh]

I'm sorry to hear that for you pen. There's a magnifier app, with which you can take super Marco photos for Santini.

I hope it's resolved speedily. t must be very frustrating. Keep us posted.

[LizEF]

41 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

Well, the pen didn't dry out overnight the first two nights, but it did over 36 hours, so now I'm declaring KWZ "not guilty" on all charges, and pursuing what I think is likely to turn into a nib exchange with Santini. There's an area of roughness in the last few mm of the nib slit -- I'm not going to post the photo here, but a picture taken through a loupe is pretty striking -- that I think is probably causing premature dryout right up near the tipping. Part of me is inclined to mutter "how did that ever pass QC?" -- but, to be fair, I think it passed because they tested it and it wrote smoothly; they didn't test it to see whether it dried out when left unused for a day and a half. That's not unreasonable: you can't factory test for every aspect of ongoing daily use. As long as it all works out in the end, I'll be happy. I'll just try not to think too much about the ultimate carbon footprint of this pen (or the whole collection, god forbid....)

Huh.  I'm not sure that would impact ink drying on the nib / in the feed.  But it could impact flow, which might exhibit similar symptoms.  Whatever the case, I hope you are able to get the pen working to your satisfaction.

[InkyProf]

Thanks! -- I'm no scientist, but my theory was, in effect, that if there was something interfering with but not entirely blocking flow along the last few millimeters of the slit, you wouldn't necessarily encounter problems when actively writing (because the "current" would be strong enough to maintain a steady flow of ink to the tip) but that, when the pen was sitting unused, the ink at the tip of the nib would get disconnected from the larger reservoir of ink upstream, like a tidal pool at low tide, and dry out. 

 

I've now been asked to try heat-setting the (ebonite) feed, which I'll do -- but I'll stop reporting that stuff here, because this is no longer about KWZ Green-Gold! Thank you again for the support.

[LizEF]

16 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

the ink at the tip of the nib would get disconnected from the larger reservoir of ink upstream, like a tidal pool at low tide, and dry out. 

I would describe this as hard starting, even though that's usually attributed to baby's bottom.  "dry out" suggests evaporation of ink in the exposed feed...  Whatever it is, and whatever we call it, I hope you're right about the source and that the problem gets resolved.

 

18 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

but I'll stop reporting that stuff here, because this is no longer about KWZ Green-Gold!

Noooo!  You can't leave us on a cliffhanger!   You at least have to come back at the end and tell us how it all worked out.

 

19 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

Thank you again for the support.

You're most welcome!

[InkyProf]

26 minutes ago, LizEF said:

I would describe this as hard starting, even though that's usually attributed to baby's bottom.  "dry out" suggests evaporation of ink in the exposed feed...

 

I appreciate the usage note! I hadn't thought carefully about the difference between the two terms. Maybe I reached for "dry out" because this problem seemed different from and more severe than the symptoms that I've experienced of baby's bottom (in a couple of quite mild cases), which have involved nibs that would fail to write immediately on the first stroke, typically a downstroke, but wouldn't take 10+ seconds of dry writing to start up again. (And, hmm, when you think about it, the two terms aren't really parallel: one describes a symptom, the other a cause!)

 

...always more to learn.

 

34 minutes ago, LizEF said:

You at least have to come back at the end and tell us how it all worked out.

 

If you insist! But I'll at least spare you the blow by blow.

 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

I appreciate the usage note! I hadn't thought carefully about the difference between the two terms. Maybe I reached for "dry out" because this problem seemed different from and more severe than the symptoms that I've experienced of baby's bottom (in a couple of quite mild cases), which have involved nibs that would fail to write immediately on the first stroke, typically a downstroke, but wouldn't take 10+ seconds of dry writing to start up again. (And, hmm, when you think about it, the two terms aren't really parallel: one describes a symptom, the other a cause!)

 

...always more to learn.

Well, you seem to have a unique situation, so it's hard to say what to call it!  

 

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

If you insist!

I insist!

 

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

But I'll at least spare you the blow by blow.

[USG]

17 hours ago, InkyProf said:

I'm not going to post the photo here, but a picture taken through a loupe is pretty striking ….I'll at least spare you the blow by blow…..

Hey IP

I’m interested.
Could you link me to the photos and the ‘blow by blow’ if you’re posting it.

 

[InkyProf]

1 hour ago, USG said:

Hey IP

I’m interested.
Could you link me to the photos and the ‘blow by blow’ if you’re posting it.

 

 

Sorry, I meant that I wasn’t posting this photo on the web, not just in this thread. Since I’m in the midst of talking with Santini about my problem, and they’re being very helpful, I don’t think it would be appropriate. I’ll update the story once it’s resolved one way or another.
 

[InkyProf]

The update about KWZ Green-Gold is that I've now had it in my Lamy 2K for a week and it's giving me no problems at all.

 

The update about the Santini-Italia is that, after several tests using three different inks and leaving the pen unused for 48 hours at a time, I concluded the heat-setting didn't do the trick, so then pen is going off to Italy tomorrow for a nib replacement. 

[LizEF]

1 minute ago, InkyProf said:

The update about KWZ Green-Gold is that I've now had it in my Lamy 2K for a week and it's giving me no problems at all.

Coincidentally, or perhaps subconsciously, I put the last of my Green Gold sample into my Lamy Al-Star.  They don't like each other.  The ink dries out too quickly.  I'm wondering if whatever carries the scent doesn't speed evaporation a little...  I don't usually have problems with the Al-Star as long as I use it daily...  Just FYI - it might be that the ink doesn't like your pen.

 

Anywho, best wishes for the nib replacement - hope it comes back perfect!  

[InkyProf]

That's interesting! Of the three inks I tested, the problem was definitely worst with the Green Gold (least severe but still present with the Pelikan Königsblau; Lamy Petrol '25 was in-between.) Perhaps an interaction between the pen and the nib. And the idea that the scent might have something to do with it is intriguing. I suppose the chemical source of the scent is probably some sort of VOC, which would itself evaporate relatively quickly pretty much by definition? But I am now out of my depth, being a STEMless humanist...

[yazeh]

@InkyProf thanks for the update.  Glad someone (your pen) is going on vacation. Hopefully,.it'll come back rested with no evaporation.