Final Decision: Parker 51 vs Lamy 2000 +Miscellaneous questions about the P51

[Frame 1]

I had previously posted about which one would be better to use, the P51 or carene, and I decided to buy the P51.

 

However, a similar question was asked by the Korean community, and most of them said to choose lamy 2000.

I'm looking for it, but the price is cheaper than the P51, so I'm having a hard time deciding what to buy...

Also, in Korea, it is about $127, but I can buy it for about $85 because I have a coupon.

 

The Lamy 2000 is reasonably priced and has a nice hairline finish, but the design looks clunky.

The P51 is the pen I've been longing for for a long time, and I'm worried that it will be meaningful because I have a pen that dominated an era by owning this pen.

Also, in this day and age, fountain pens are written with emotion rather than writing instruments, so I think it would be better than the clunky Lamy 2000.

 

What is a decision you won't regret?

 

In Korea, there is a huge second-hand trading site.

There, one person sells a P51 nearmint grade.

There are many for sale and the opinions of those who have bought it say that the condition is reliable and very good.

So, if I can buy a P51 from this person, I'm thinking of buying it, somebody say it's a bit expensive.

For example, it's a P51 teal blue with gold F nib and 1959 England 4-times aerometric filler.

The price is $186. Is it expensive compared to other near-mint-class P51? Is it worth buying?

 

Plus, the P51 has many assemblies, is there any way to tell them apart?

 

Finally what other color would you like?

I'm debating between teal blue and black.
Thank you always!

Edited November 18, 2021 by Frame 1
translation error

[inkstainedruth]

I don't know what the market is like where you are in general -- but here in the US I have never paid that much for a vintage 51.  My first one was a Teal Blue Aerometric with a 12K rolled gold cap and (while I did buy it a number of years ago) I paid $56 US for it on eBay.  The most I've ever paid for a 51 (either a Vac filler or an Aerometric model) was $120 for a UK production Navy Gray Aero with an OB nib in the Saturday night auction at the Triangle Pen Show in 2017, and that price included the buyer's premium.  Both pens were from the 1950s I think -- (the Teal was pre-1957, and the Navy Gray maybe a little later).  

Don't know how much inflation has stepped in since then....

I have pretty much all the Aerometric colors at this point that I want (although I'd like to someday get one of the "British Bloody Burgundy" ones); I keep thinking that I'd also like a full size Plum Aerometric, but in the meantime am contenting myself with the Demi Size Plummer.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[sirgilbert357]

Lamy 2000 all the way for me. And I've had like 4 or 5 P51's. Sold them all. I seriously don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

It really is apples to oranges though (at least in my opinion).

[OCArt]

Both the P51 and Lamy 2K are great pens and I have both. If you enjoy using a variety of inks I'd recommend the Lamy as it is *much* easier to empty completely and faster to clean. IMHO the P51 is best used with one dedicated ink.  I also have a tendency to "roll" pens and the 2K has a larger area of exposed nib to use as a visual reference to help hold the pen with the nib centered and not rotated right or left..

[Runnin_Ute]

I have a Lamy 2000 in fine ($99 Endless Pens on their Black Friday sale last year), and three P51's. A 1948 Demi Vacumatic in Cordovan Brown - that was about $75 restored, and two aerometric fillers - one is a black 51 Special, and I paid just under $50 for it. The most recent was one with a 12k cap, but it is a bit of a franken pen. Black hood, burgundy barrel. It was about $60 or so. Because of it's franken pen ish ness, I probably overpaid a little. None were mint, near mint. I like them all, but don't love them all if that makes any sense. None of the four are currently inked. But with nearly 50 pens, even keeping 8-12 inked at a time (10 right now), it happens.

[Checklist]

While you can't go wrong with either choice, I recommend the 2000.  I wasn't sold on the design, either until I bought mine.  It just feels like a high-quality pen, not clunky or industrial; compared to my 51, you can feel the extra 50 years of refinements.  It's hard for me to describe, other than to say that you should at least try one in person if you can before you decide.  Some things just don't come through in the pictures.  It writes really well, too, with a wet, smooth nib that I literally look for excuses to use whenever the pen is inked up. 

 

The 51 is a great pen, too; like I said, you can't go wrong with either one.  My set in Burgundy (pen and pencil) cost me about half of your quote, but that was from an online auction, which has some risks.  If you have a reputable restorer that you are buying from, you're getting more peace of mind with that price.  I would expect about US$150 for a restored Aero, but $186 is not egregious, in my opinion.  I don't know what you mean by "assemblies"; there are several models, and I don't know too much about the interchangeability between them; you'll find better experts here. 

 

Whichever you choose, you'll have a winner and won't regret it.  Don't worry too much if you're getting a good deal or not (so long as it's not excessively expensive); after 5 years of use, you'll love it enough to forget about the price.

[MuddyWaters]

I also prefer the Lamy 2000. Easier to hold for long time, more comfortable, better filling system, good cap seal.

[Wahl]

P51, always !

[TgeekB]

I have both and they are my two favorite pens along with my MB146.

If I had to pick just one, and it would be close, it would be the Lamy 2000. Newer and more solid. If you go with the 51 I certainly would find one that was less expensive. 
Best of luck!

[ele]

The Parker "51" aerometrics are more reliable--as in, less likely to make a mess in your hands--for rough and tumble carry, and the section shape might be more comfortable for smaller hands. The Lamy will wear beautifully in a way almost no other pen does, and is much more suitable for frequent ink changes. I don't see where people get the idea that the Lamy is more refined--the Parker's tolerances, feed/collector system, durable materials etc. are all on par. The clip is perfectly sprung, the cap mechanism just as refined as the Lamy's. 

 

 

[grainweevil]

On 11/18/2021 at 2:02 AM, Frame 1 said:

The P51 is the pen I've been longing for for a long time...

 

Get the 51. Even if everyone here unanimously said get the Lamy, you will still be left wondering about the 51 and probably be dissatisfied with the Lamy as a result. But you don't need to get a mint aerometric 51 - they very rarely have problems, so a tidy used one will be more than adequate to fill your 51 desires at a fraction of the price. Concentrate on getting the nib size that suits you, that's far more important.

[Ron Z]

I don't see where people get the idea that the Lamy is more refined--the Parker's tolerances, feed/collector system, durable materials etc. are all on par.

 

Lets debunk that 51 tolerance thing a bit.  I've seen feeds so tight that you can't get them back out - the break instead.  I've seen feeds (in the pen mind you) where the slit runs down the side of the feed, 90 degrees off center.  I've seen other oopsies that make it out of the factory. 

 

I like the 51, but I'll use a 2000 much more often.  The curve of the pen nib to blind cap end, fits my hand better than a 51.

[bunnspecial]

I think everyone should have or at least experience both pens.

 

Both are timeless designs in their own right.

 

The 51 didn't basically take the US(at least) by storm in the middle of WWII for no reason at all. It is a great looking and great writing pen, and the aeromatic versions have very few problems. I like the Vacumatics better, but the diaphragms do have a finite life. If you go down the rabbit hole of Parkers enough, you'll likely end up with the tools and know-how to replace a diapragm yourself, but it's also at least an intermediate level skill.

 

The 2000 has been made virtually unchanged since the 60s. It is a timeless design, although it may not appeal to your taste. It's basically an example of getting it right the first time with a minimalist design, and there have not been many changes to the 2000 in 50+ years of production.

 

Someone mentioned ink swapping. The Parker 51 is best treated as a one-ink-pen. It's not a small task to get it to something resembling completely cleaned out as the collector hold a lot of ink. I generally will, after flushing with water, leave them overnight standing on a paper towel in the bottom of a cup, which will draw remaining water out, but if you're trying to get all of the evidence of the old color you might need to do that several times. The 2000 is not terribly difficult to take to pieces(and the redesigned barrel minimizes the chances of a section crack when doing so).

 

Something else to consider if you have any interest in flex(there are some here who will all but call a pen junk if it doesn't flex 🙄 ). 51s are essentially pure nails-the tiny tubular nib really doesn't have any way to flex. The 2000 nib does have a small amount of springiness, although the hood "contains" it somewhat.

[pajaro]

I have enough aerometric Parker 51s that changing ink in one pen is not an issue.  The Lamy 2000 is better for using many inks in one pen.  I started collecting pens by collecting Parker 51 aerometric fillers.  

 

My first experience with a Vacumatic 51 was with one sent to me in a falling apart condition, making me figure out how to put it back together.  I thought it a disagreable experience and felt the same at each restore I had to do after.  I don't have many Vac pens.  The aerometric fillers have not needed a resac, whether my first one, brand new in 1970, or one of the older ones going back to 8 date codes.  Which is better?  Both are good, and the aerometrics just need less restore work.  

 

Which is better, Lamy 2000 or Parker 51?  I have both and like both, but the 51 in Midnight Blue is a sentimental favorite, because I have used it for over fifty years.  It's all good.  

 

As far as Vacumatics go, Wing Sung gets my vote.  Came with its own tool to remove the filler, and fillers with diaphragm cost me less than $6 shipped from China in about two weeks.  Nibs are whatever you want as long as it's extra fine.  Nyaaa, whatever.  The hood on my black one cracked.  Got a new clear hood from China.  They appear to have revised, making it thicker.  The original cap would not fit with the revised hood.  I put a 51 Vac cap on the pen, making the rest of the 51 vac spare parts.  The WS 601 with the clear hood reminds me of the Parker 51s with a demo hood.  Still has that EF nib, though.  A 51 nib will not fit the WS 601.  Too big in diameter.  Yes, I tried that.  I do have a few Parker Vac fillers sporting WS 601 filler modules and enough teflon tape around the threads where the blind cap threads on to let it screw on to the filler's smaller diameter threads.  I am sure I have bored a lot of people with this.

[jchch1950]

Lamy 2000 is my choice over the Parker 51. Both pens are very good pens but I prefer  the grit and balance of the Lamy . You can buy the Lamy with a good choice of nibs,some of them are seldom find in  the second hand market of Parker 51.

[Sailor Kenshin]

I hate to be the one to say this, but $20 or so will get you a Wing Sung 601 'vac' filler.  Then you can tell whether a 51 will suit you.

 

I do have a 51, but I like the WS pens so much I have four.  

[MuddyWaters]

The wing sung nib isn't comparable to a vintage p51 nib though. 

 

For work and knock around pen purposes, I think that is where the wing sungs shine over the original. 

 

For home or office purposes, I would stick to a Lamy 2000 though. Ie if I had to choose between the three, I'd take a wing sung 601 and a Lamy 2000. I know that could sound sacreligious. 

[Sailor Kenshin]

1 hour ago, MuddyWaters said:

The wing sung nib isn't comparable to a vintage p51 nib though. 

 

For work and knock around pen purposes, I think that is where the wing sungs shine over the original. 

 

For home or office purposes, I would stick to a Lamy 2000 though. Ie if I had to choose between the three, I'd take a wing sung 601 and a Lamy 2000. I know that could sound sacreligious. 

 

Don't tell a soul, but the nibs in my WS 601 family write better than my 51.

[pajaro]

2 hours ago, Sailor Kenshin said:

 

Don't tell a soul, but the nibs in my WS 601 family write better than my 51.

This can be true.  I have had a lot of Parker 51s, Vac and aero, and some nibs were wonderful and some not so good.  I think prior owners' use of the pens has something to do with it.  Some nibs were misaligned, and some were just rough and scratchy.  I aligned some nibs and smoothed some others, but I was never able to make some satisfactorily smooth.  There's a limit to my ability to work with nibs.  

[pajaro]

For some reason my Lamy 2000 EF nib kept getting out of alignment.  After several realignments, it is now fine to medium.  This is OK by me, and now the tines stay aligned.  The feel of the Lamy 2000 Makrolon pen is unique and pleasant.  I do prefer my first Parker 51, but I use the Lamy 2000 too.  Both have a pleasant feel in the hand.  I have just used the Parker 51 lomger, fifty years and just a few for the Lamy 2000.  I take each for what it gives.