EFNIR: Lamy Benitoite

[1nkulus]

Thank you for all your reviews. 

 

I tend to use only bulletproof/IG inks, hence I was drawn to this review.

 

On 7/30/2021 at 3:14 PM, A Smug Dill said:

It's the only colour in the Lamy T53 Crystal Ink product line that is marketed as being ‘document-proof’, whatever that means. (Does it defend well against documents domestic and foreign, or stop handwritten stuff done with the ink from becoming documents?)

 

The term 'document proof' is proof that its qualities are undocumented i.e. gibberish for it is 'different' and it is up to you to find that difference. 

 

Surprising it proved harder to clean in a Lamy pen. Loyal fans might find themselves on a sticky wicket esp. those pairing pen and ink.

I had tried this ink a while back but wasn't bowled over, although I am certain it wasn't in a Lamy pen.

[LizEF]

3 minutes ago, 1nkulus said:

Thank you for all your reviews. 

You're welcome!

[LizEF]

Here's the line width measurement. The line is one of those used for dry time.  Magnification is 100x.  The grid is 100x100µm.  The scale is 330µm, with eleven divisions of 30µm each.  The line width for this ink is roughly 270µm.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I hadn't thought of Benitoite as a blue black, but hadn't gone back to look at it the next day.

 

4001 BB, would have been the farthest thing from my mind...., might be likely it's been years since I used it.

With that in mind, I could just about see it being somewhat like 4001 BB.Now I have to ink another pen not planned...well. Sooner or later, I'd inked one just back from repair anyway. 

 

It's a half of an old, old bottle white capped bottle I picked up somewhere, the other bottle, couldn't be found. Doesn't mention where it was made, no W. Germany or Germany.

Hopefully this bottle of the ink can still change from blue to black.

 

Richard Binder said a good BB takes a day to change. In I hadn't looked for it, it never dawned on me. I looked at Benitoite, from full yesterday, still blue/gray, not yet turned into black.

Depending on the paper, ESSR took to the end of the sheet; a full day, and or up to three full days to change to black. 

So I'll wait another two days to see if it's just slow or not a changing blue/gray to black. 

I like the grayed blue color of this ink

 

I had let my ESSR sit too long, and it was just a black. They did say use it up with in two years and that was 7-8. 

[LizEF]

There are two types of blue-black ink: the iron galls that under the right conditions will oxidize to black, and inks that are a blackened blue (or inks that deluded manufacturers pretend are blackened blue). I decline to gate-keep.

[Bo Bo Olson]

11 hours ago, LizEF said:

There are two types of blue-black ink:

'New' to me.

Only knew of the one that becomes darker.

Good, then I don't have to try 4001 BB, or keep checking back to see if on 'this' paper the change takes 3 days, in it didn't change in one. 

 

It was recommended for Wet Noodle use, and seems to be doing a good job, and the color has grown on me, blued gray, or grayed blue.

Shades well.

[LizEF]

3 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Good, then I don't have to try 4001 BB, or keep checking back to see if on 'this' paper the change takes 3 days, in it didn't change in one. 

As I understand it, Pelikan 4001 BB was iron gall (and perhaps still is, but I don't know).  Therefore, it should oxidize to black over time - in theory.  How long it takes will vary based on the paper, environmental conditions, and how much ink was put down (how wet the pen was).  My swatch hasn't blackened, even after four years.  I think this suggests either that my understanding is wrong, and the one I reviewed wasn't iron gall, or that the blackening is only theory for some modern IG inks, or that it's just going to take a lot longer...

 

3 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

It was recommended for Wet Noodle use, and seems to be doing a good job, and the color has grown on me, blued gray, or grayed blue.

Shades well.

Yes, drier inks are generally the recommendation for such pens - though I've found that an ink can be too dry to keep up with a very wet pen.  And yes, I agree with your description: greyed blue - a lot of "blue-black" inks are really just a muted (greyed) blue shade (Like Lamy's and Pilot's).  I prefer the ones that are a blackened blue - enough blue to still show, but clearly blackened.

[InkyProf]

4 minutes ago, LizEF said:

(and perhaps still is, but I don't know)

 

There was some confusion about this after it was removed from and much later returned to the US market, but the official word seems to be: the formulation hasn't changed; it's still IG; and the IG concentration is and has always been low. More here.

[LizEF]

3 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

There was some confusion about this after it was removed from and much later returned to the US market, but the official word seems to be: the formulation hasn't changed; it's still IG; and the IG concentration is and has always been low. More here.

Thank you!

[InkyProf]

31 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Thank you!

 

Any time! I'm fascinated by this because my experience is the opposite of @Bo Bo Olson's; my introduction to blue-blacks was via the second variety you mention, and only relatively recently, in following reviews here of IG inks, did I learn about the "goes down blue and blackens with time" variety, which I'll be exploring soon. (I have some 4001 BB and R&K Salix on hand, and think I should probably give KWZ a shot too: I have his IG Turquoise but not BB or any of the numbered shades of blue.) 

[LizEF]

59 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

Any time! I'm fascinated by this because my experience is the opposite of @Bo Bo Olson's; my introduction to blue-blacks was via the second variety you mention, and only relatively recently, in following reviews here of IG inks, did I learn about the "goes down blue and blackens with time" variety, which I'll be exploring soon. (I have some 4001 BB and R&K Salix on hand, and think I should probably give KWZ a shot too: I have his IG Turquoise but not BB or any of the numbered shades of blue.) 

So far, for me (here in the desert), the "lighter" modern IG inks haven't blackened.  Even ESSRI hasn't.  Some of the Tintenlabor have.  So, while in theory they all should eventually, I think it's more a theory and reality depends heavily on all the "ingredients".

[InkyProf]

16 minutes ago, LizEF said:

the "lighter" modern IG inks haven't blackened

 

My experience with IG ink of any kind is now about 48 hours long. I would say the writing I did with Scabiosa on Monday looks noticably darker than I remember it going down, but not blackened. Which is okay with me.

 

15 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Some of the Tintenlabor have

 

I hope some of those make their way into retail channels in the US! Though I'm not holding my breath...

 

19 minutes ago, LizEF said:

while in theory they all should eventually

 

And in theory all celluloid will eventually decay! But I think I'll probably beat at least some of my pens to it. 

[LizEF]

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

My experience with IG ink of any kind is now about 48 hours long. I would say the writing I did with Scabiosa on Monday looks noticably darker than I remember it going down, but not blackened. Which is okay with me.

Yes, this is the more common occurrence.  Perhaps I'm wrong on the theory...

 

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

I hope some of those make their way into retail channels in the US! Though I'm not holding my breath...

Yeah, that's probably a tall hurdle.  Even just ordering it from Switzerland to the US is probably a pain (or impossible) right now.

 

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

And in theory all celluloid will eventually decay! But I think I'll probably beat at least some of my pens to it. 

Is this a catch-22?  I'm not sure which to wish for: that your celluloid will outlast you, or that you will outlast your celluloid!

[yazeh]

25 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Yes, this is the more common occurrence.  Perhaps I'm wrong on the theory...

You're not.  The reason you're blue-black is because of lack of humidity. You can write two samples, keep one in a relatively humid environment, and check the difference.  

25 minutes ago, LizEF said:

 

Yeah, that's probably a tall hurdle.  Even just ordering it from Switzerland to the US is probably a pain (or impossible) right now.

Most Fp websites I checked have paused delivery to US. 

25 minutes ago, LizEF said:

 

Is this a catch-22?  I'm not sure which to wish for: that your celluloid will outlast you, or that you will outlast your celluloid!

From irongall website. 

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

 

My experience with IG ink of any kind is now about 48 hours long. I would say the writing I did with Scabiosa on Monday looks noticably darker than I remember it going down, but not blackened. Which is okay with me.

That "blackening" happens only with "real" IG inks. My Essri swatch after 4 years is grey. If you're interested there's a very interesting website on everything IG ink. If the pen is wet enough, and you apply a lot of ink, the oxidation process is immediate, depending the paper. If you check the Tintenlabor Gold rush (Gold black) reviews, you can see it in some of the closeups. 

https://irongallink.org

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

I hope some of those make their way into retail channels in the US! Though I'm not holding my breath...

I doubt it You have to order directly, after the parcel/tariff issue is resolved. Sad day for ink/ pen lovers. 

 

[InkyProf]

38 minutes ago, LizEF said:

Is this a catch-22?

 

Nah, that sounded more morbid than I intended. "It's the end of the world as we know it, but I feel fine..." ...although @yazeh's photo of manuscripts turning to dust does put me more in mind of Ecclesiastes than REM.

 

12 minutes ago, yazeh said:

"real" IG inks

 

Sorry if this has been made clear elsewhere, but is "real" here just a shorthand for "high iron gall content"? That was the general impression I was getting from your & Liz's Tintenlabor reviews, but I may be (probably am) oversimplifying it...

 

And thank you for the website link!

[yazeh]

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

Sorry if this has been made clear elsewhere, but is "real" here just a shorthand for "high iron gall content"? That was the general impression I was getting from your & Liz's Tintenlabor reviews, but I may be (probably am) oversimplifying it...

Yes. Traditionally, fountain pen IG inks were high iron content. However, because taking care of IG inks is a pain, and I'm guessing with the gradual demise of fountain pens and the availability of the "other" inks (i.e. the panoply of inks available now) and (some other factors) a few ink makers made IG "lite" inks (Platinum, R & K, even KWZ).  These inks offer to a certain extent the idea of IG experience, minimal oxidation, decent water resistance in most cases and most importantly low maintenance. The new Tintenlabor Alpstein has only 1 g/L Iron content, decent water resistance, minimal oxidation ( its faint) and is one of the easiest inks to clean. 

This is based on my observations, and is by no means a PhD thesis. 😜

1 hour ago, InkyProf said:

And thank you for the website link!

Happy reading.

 

[InkyProf]

1 hour ago, yazeh said:

is by no means a PhD thesis.

 

That's okay, I have enough of those to read! And thanks again. 🙂 

[yazeh]

2 minutes ago, InkyProf said:

 

That's okay, I have enough of those to read! And thanks again. 🙂 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

7 hours ago, LizEF said:

Even ESSRI hasn't. 

I did a 17 paper, 17 ink pen test of ESSR. From nail to wet noodle, from EEF to BB/OBB.

 

The only paper that the ink stayed blue was Eaton's Corrasable 25% rag 16# typewriter (medium) paper, that was coated only on the front side as was common for typing papers, so it is a bleed through champ. Other than that, I really like that paper. On any other inks I'd tied on it, was grand...one side paper. 

 

Some papers trued black by the time you got to the bottom of the page. Other papers took a day, as 'expected' according to Richard. A few papers took two, and a couple took three days, to turn from blue to black. There may have been one that took longer but I don't remember exactly as it was a decade ago.

 

When ESSR got old, it just came on black, with no blue to be had.

That info was lost when I left randsombucket.

 

My first bottle of ESSR got lost in the mail. This was during the long ESSR thread. Lapis from Berlin sent me a bottle, then the company sent me the second one for free. So I had 220ml of ESSR....which is why one bnottle got real old. 

[yazeh]

@Bo Bo Olson, it's because of her desert climate and lack of humidity. In dry climates, iron gall inks like ESSRI often remain blue-black for years, while in humid climates they darken to grey or black much faster due to quicker oxidation.