Anything special about Pilot Custom 823?

[JohnUphill]

Not intended to be derogatory, but since I am not tied to any filling system, is there anything about the 823 that sets it apart other than its filling system? I am wavering between the 823 and a Sailor 1911L.

[zaddick]

Pilot nibs are different from Sailor nibs. Sailor tends to have more feedback. Also, ink capacity is a lot more in an 823 so how much ink you want to carry is a big distinction. 

[langere]

In this case, ink capacity is the difference.  I have both pens and would recommend that you budget to get both. 😃

 

Erick

[maclink]

Ergonomics and the nibs are different. For me the ergonomics of the 823 gets the nod. OTOH, the nib of the 1911L, especially the M, I find special. The ink capacity of the 823 is outstanding. I have both and would probably part with the Sailor if I had to choose. 

[Al-fresco]

Last month I acquired my first Japanese pens - a new Pilot Custom 823 and a secondhand Sailor Pro Gear Imperial.  (Yeah - it was a significant birthday!)  Both have “M” nibs, both are lovely pens to write with and if I’d only bought one of them I’d be perfectly happy with either.  For me, using them side by side, the Pilot has a slight edge.   As a pen the 823 gives me more pleasure to use; it writes a little smoother and, of course, I just love the vacuum filling system.  The charms of the Sailor are more subtle, it’s more businesslike, more functional and it’s a no-brainer that the cartridge converter will be much easier to clean.   If I was choosing a work pen I’d pick the Sailor but for pleasure the Pilot wins.

[JohnUphill]

Thanks for the replies. In all honesty, I should have asked, “Which should I get first?”

[Al-fresco]

Let us know how you get on!

[TheDutchGuy]

They feel quite different in the hand. Also the tactile response of nib on paper feels quite different. Quality-wise, both are absolutely top-notch pens. Personally I could not bond with my C823 and sold it. Somewhere deep down, the model still leaves me with an itch that I might have to scratch one day. After all, mine could’ve been a dud. Given how much I love my Justus95 pens, though, I seriously doubt that any C823 will surpass that. As for Sailor, my experiences with them are 100% positive. They rock.

[readytotalk]

Well, Custom 823 is definitely great pen, although not being a formal Pilot flagship.

It has couple of unique features - vac-filler with huge ink capacity, demonstrator (especially grey and brown versions are convenient), and big #15 nib.

It`s available with amazing FA flex nib, and can be customized with ebonite feeds!

With all due respect to other Japanese brands, the combination "Pilot Custom 823 + Falcon nib + ebonite feed" is something outstanding in in this price segment. 

 

   

[gyasko]

I too am filling system agnostic. For this reason, and because i dislike the semi-transparent barrel,  i’ve never got around to purchasing an 823.  I’d rather have the choice in nibs that the 742 or 743 have.    

[Geslina]

I have the 823 and love it.  I also have one Sailor Pen, a Pro Gear Slim.  Love that one too...but the 823 nib is just...perfect.  Mine is a fine, very pleasurable to write with.  I’m thinking on getting a medium now!

[gyasko]

33 minutes ago, Geslina said:

I have the 823 and love it.  I also have one Sailor Pen, a Pro Gear Slim.  Love that one too...but the 823 nib is just...perfect.  Mine is a fine, very pleasurable to write with.  I’m thinking on getting a medium now!

 

 

That’s great, but a 743 would have the same #15 F nib — or possibly something more interesting.  

[Mr Bill]

Well the Sailor will save you a few dollars and is a really nice pen,

however right now I am saving for a Pilot 743 as I prefer to use a

converter and the 743 is available in black. Cheers.

[Geslina]

12 hours ago, gyasko said:

I too am filling system agnostic. For this reason, and because i dislike the semi-transparent barrel,  i’ve never got around to purchasing an 823.  I’d rather have the choice in nibs that the 742 or 743 have.    

I have the 823 in what I think is Smoke.  I say think because it’s hardly transparent.  I have to hold it up to very bright light to get a backlight effect and even then, I can barely see through it.  It looks like it’s just solid black. 

[A Smug Dill]

On 5/1/2021 at 11:10 AM, JohnUphill said:

is there anything about the 823 that sets it apart other than its filling system?

 

I guess the key aspect of the question is: sets it apart from what exactly? Its siblings and cousins in Pilot's Custom product line, or,

 

On 5/1/2021 at 11:10 AM, JohnUphill said:

I am wavering between the 823 and a Sailor 1911L.

 

specifically the Sailor Profit21 (aka 1911L), or more broadly other fountain pens (including other Sailor pen models, Platinum pen models, perhaps even non-Japanese makes and models)?

 

The fact that the Pilot Custom 823 uses a large part of its barrel cavity as the ink reservoir means that it has a large maximum ink capacity, which may well be of little importance or relevance to the individual; but also that the heft and weight balance of the pen, when almost fully filled, would be quite different from, say, the Pilot Custom 743. The nature of the filling system may not impress or beguile the pen owner, but — as either part and parcel of the filling system, or a direct consequence of the nature of the filling system — there are implications when it comes to ease or difficulty in cleaning its ink reservoir thoroughly. It comes in barrel materials with different degrees of translucence, while the Custom 743, and the slightly smaller Custom 742 and Custom Heritage 912, come only with opaque bodies, and one would have to drop down to an even smaller Custom 74 or Custom Heritage 92 to find a different pen in the same product family with a see-through body; and, on the other hand, it could be something that the particular pen user wants to avoid completely, on account of the potential for visible staining.

 

If you're comparing it directly — and only — against some edition of the Sailor Profit21 pen model, then outside of their both being Japanese-branded, Japanese-made fountain pens, everything else sets them apart from each other. Their physical nib sizes are different, the nib materials (i.e. 14K gold vs 21K gold) are different, the ranges of nib options are different, the choices for body material and colour are different, the pens' dimensions are different, and so on.

[Frank C]

I really like each pen. However, my daily users are Pilot Custom 823s and Pilot Custom 74s, with fine nibs and Pilot blue-black Ink. The Pilots are demonstrators, so I know how much ink I have when I pick them up in the morning. The nibs are fairly stiff, so I can press hard without fear of damaging them, and the Pilot blue-black ink is a professional-appearing color that works well on cheap copy paper—the source for most forms at the hospital. One  advantage of Pilot is they can be sent to Pilot USA in Florida for repair; Sailors go to Itoya in California who in turn sends them to Japan for repair. 

The bottom line is that you cannot go wrong with either pen; for the price, they can't be beaten. For that matter, you could also look at Platinum 3776 or President; they are great pens, too.

[Honeybadgers]

the 823 feels like a proper pen size. Even my 1911L's feel a little short unposted. And they don't post quite as satisfyingly as the 823, which is very well balanced and just kinda "fits" my hand in a more satisfying way. I also prefer Pilot's nib tuning to Sailor's (both are great and reliable, I just prefer pilot's "smooth 2B pencil" drag to sailor's "sharp 2H pencil".

 

And I also feel like Pilot isn't constantly trying to take advantage of me as a customer like Sailor does. Sailor truly doesn't respect its customers with their bizarre price hikes and not listening to feedback about design. I have the sailor pens I want, a pro gear slim in lovely pearl white, a 1911S with a 21k zoom, and two 1911L realos. The only other sailor product I could see myself owning some day is one of their king of pens with something like a cross concord nib.

 

Also, some vendors are selling the 823 with the more unique nib options like the waverly or FA. I got my 823 with an FA nib. Sailor definitely doesn't offer that.

[Pensei]

Quote

 I just prefer pilot's "smooth 2B pencil" drag to sailor's "sharp 2H pencil".

If I may be indulged a brief excursus, Honeybadgers has here captured brilliantly an oft-discussed point of distinction between Pilot and Sailor nibs. 

[A Smug Dill]

5 hours ago, Honeybadgers said:

Also, some vendors are selling the 823 with the more unique nib options like the waverly or FA. I got my 823 with an FA nib. Sailor definitely doesn't offer that.

 

On the flip side, Pilot doesn't offer the Zoom nib or Naginata specialty nibs that Sailor does, full stop.

[TheDutchGuy]

11 hours ago, Honeybadgers said:

… pilot's "smooth 2B pencil" drag to sailor's "sharp 2H pencil" …

 

Great way to put it! Personally, however, I perceive it exactly the other way around. Sailors appear silky-pencilly to me. I love both, though.