In defense of absorbent paper: Strathmore Writing

[Karmachanic]

46 minutes ago, LizEF said:

I think this is another paper I have on my wish list, but it's a case of "I already own more paper than I'll use in a decade

 

Oh dear!  I've got some serious catching up to do.  I've only enough to last six years. 😱

[LizEF]

58 minutes ago, Karmachanic said:

 

Oh dear!  I've got some serious catching up to do.  I've only enough to last six years. 😱

Slacker!

[yazeh]

Midori cotton is quite different compared to pure cotton/ cotton, linen mixes. 

First off Midori cotton is supposedly for drawing only. It's quite fun for sketching, but very expensive. Ink, especially bulletproof inks bleed through in them. Paper is textured but you can write with fine nibs on it. 

The pure cotton/ cotton lined are quite textured and IMHO are not suitable with EF/fine nibs and I'd pity anyone trying their dip nibs on them. The nib will be ensnared in the cotton fibre. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's like anything new, it takes time getting used to them and appreciating them. It's like dark chocolate, the first time it's bitter but then you cannot live without the bitterness

 

 

[Karmachanic]

Midori MD cotton is 20%. Strathmore Writing, as mentioned by @arcfide in the original post, is 25%.  Midori Cotton MD is available in A5/A5 notebooks.  The following images are from a review of an A5 (£13-15, 176 pages) notebook.

 

 

[arcfide]

16 hours ago, LizEF said:

I'm not sure I would actually hate it, but my curiosity is primarily witnessing first hand (with my pens and inks) a paper that has crisper lines than my Hobonichi - of course, I suspect the difference might be so slight I'd need that reticle to tell, and that's an even greater expense.

 

Hrm. I'd say if you really want to see the difference at a stark level of contrast, at least among writing papers, you might check out G. Lalo or Original Crown Mill 100% cotton options, or maybe Strathmore Bristol Plate (not sure about that one) or their Gemini Watercolor paper against Midori MD paper and Kokuyo THIN paper (available in their IDEA booklets for the Jibun Techo). The 100% cotton options should be highly absorbent, but not have a high degree of spread, something like Bristol Plate is used by some Spencerian artists to achieve really tight hairlines in their writing, and it's an ultra-smooth paper. The Midori MD is a rougher, but very tight paper that in my tests (mostly with a Music nib) have given the absolute tightest lines with the least spread. Then you can compare those against the Kokuyo THIN paper (or maybe Graphillo as well), which I've found has a higher than average spread on it, and has fairly high feather resistance, but a lot of spread. That should give you a taste of the various flavors at something more of an extreme than you might get with just a 25% cotton option against Tomoe River. 

[yazeh]

@Karmachanic Midori Cotton comes in a different format... (F0, F2, F3). The F standing for figure...

 

[Karmachanic]

40 minutes ago, yazeh said:

@Karmachanic Midori Cotton comes in a different format... (F0, F2, F3). The F standing for figure...

 

 

Yes. The change was several months ago. A4/5 can still be found, along with the A4 pad.

 

 

[yazeh]

Thanks I saw them on sale on jetpens. But in our neck of woods the F series only exists

[yazeh]

I did a comparison between Midori Cotton and Midori elsewhere....Note I use often wet/flex/ wide nibs and inks....That means more ink. 

Midori A5 - Note even the worst offender (Baystate) doesn't bleed or show through.... 

Midori Back

 

Midori Cotton F2

 

Midori Cotton Back; While the scan doesn't show, there's show through with all inks...

 

 

[LizEF]

23 minutes ago, yazeh said:

I did a comparison between Midori Cotton and Midori elsewhere....Note I use often wet/flex/ wide nibs and inks....That means more ink. 

...

Nice.  Thanks, Yazeh!  You really can see the difference.

[LizEF]

6 hours ago, arcfide said:

Hrm. I'd say if you really want to see the difference at a stark level of contrast, at least among writing papers, you might check out G. Lalo or Original Crown Mill 100% cotton options, or maybe Strathmore Bristol Plate (not sure about that one) or their Gemini Watercolor paper against Midori MD paper and Kokuyo THIN paper (available in their IDEA booklets for the Jibun Techo). The 100% cotton options should be highly absorbent, but not have a high degree of spread, something like Bristol Plate is used by some Spencerian artists to achieve really tight hairlines in their writing, and it's an ultra-smooth paper. The Midori MD is a rougher, but very tight paper that in my tests (mostly with a Music nib) have given the absolute tightest lines with the least spread. Then you can compare those against the Kokuyo THIN paper (or maybe Graphillo as well), which I've found has a higher than average spread on it, and has fairly high feather resistance, but a lot of spread. That should give you a taste of the various flavors at something more of an extreme than you might get with just a 25% cotton option against Tomoe River. 

Thanks for the details!  @yazeh may have satisfied my curiosity, but it's still good to have lots of details.  I mentioned this to my brother last night and that I might have to use my microscope to spot the differences, and he immediately got curious if he could photograph the difference - he has some fairly high-end photography equipment that can magnify significantly - I think he said his highest magnification would only include something like 3mm on the page...  Anywho, between us we may experiment, or we may get distracted...

 

I do already have Midori MD, but the only 100% cotton I have is some watercolor paper.

[yazeh]

I'll see if I can do a high resolution scan of some of the papers, I've got. 

But there are things you cannot photograph. 

These papers are very different to the touch. They have an almost textile quality to them

[LizEF]

4 minutes ago, yazeh said:

But there are things you cannot photograph. 

These papers are very different to the touch. They have an almost textile quality to them

What are you, an enabler or something!?

[yazeh]

13 minutes ago, LizEF said:

What are you, an enabler or something!?

Me not at all

[Vintage_BE]

FWIW: I bought a pad of Strathmore series 300 “sketch” paper which is destined for “dry media”. I discovered that it also can be used as letter writing paper. It is not coated and has a bit of “tooth” but I did not experience “drag” (and I write with a light hand). No feathering or bleeding when I wrote with a pointed pen and walnut ink. YMMV of course.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:22 AM, arcfide said:

This is 90gsm 25% cotton archival quality paper in natural white.

My Strathmore that is 100% cotton or my Crown Mill 50% cotton is what I call overly saturated....no shading, it is swallowed up. Soft, but I don't use either.

 

I've suggested 25% cotton/rag as a still good shading paper.

I once had a few sheets of Rossler's 100g 100% cotton. It was so sinfully nice to write on it would have been makde illegal to use on sundays in Kansas.....but it blead a lot and feathered.

I've never had a Rossler paper worth buying and I made that mistake for pads or small amounts 4 or so times.

 

Txomsy, mentioned great cheap paper of the '80's. That was when the golden Age of Paper died and no one noticed. The golden age of Nibs died  in 1970, but luckily we are living in the Golden Age of Inks.

 

I still have some 15 sheets, of a cheap pad bought for a Ball Point Barbarian....me....that is the best paper I have out of some 40. No water marks so I can't track it down.It is not super smooth or slick, but the inks dance like it was the Olympics.

I would not have wasted a beer's money on better paper, in it didn't matter to a ball point.

My single P-75 lay dry and locked deep in a drawer with it's ball point brother....in fear of thieves. That was back when I thought a bottle of Pelikan 4001  for some DM 2-3 was expensive...a whole cost of a beer!!!

 

I've heard Mohawk in the States makes good papers.

 

 

[txomsy]

Me, I would also convert prices to beers to make decisions. If something would give me more satisfaction than the equivalent in soirées with beers with friends, then it was worth its cost.

 

And for me, fountain pens (maybe because I had used them long before I started on beer) were always worth it.

 

I must say, copy paper was still rather user friendly here until the late 10's, but once it started the path downwards it became worse by the day until it met the global standard. I know which papers I'd prefer way back when (uncoated, watermarked, folio -not DIN-A4- size) but the brands were sold to larger brands which would kill the local product in favor of their own variant.

 

But there are still many makers producing good quality paper, at least in Europe, though one will not find it typically as loose sheets (which I always preferred), but only in notebooks.

[Mark from Yorkshire]

Currently working/experimenting with a whole range of weird and wonderful paper that I've inherited. That and pukka pad refill pad. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

I had great hopes for some 1922 paper from an artist's journal/sketch book............but it was in the middle of the great inflation, where at one time a single dollar was worth 4 trillion Marks.

 

So any paper that took only one wheel barrel of money to buy at lunch time for a loaf of bread when the first half day's pay was made, was at least worth more than bank notes. At closing, a worker was paid the second time that day.

 

Under my honking big magnifying glass half the  11 inks I just put on it, had a  woolly line.  Only a couple of the inks have minor shading.

 

However a thought just hit me in the head....really should wear a safety helmet.....he could have bought it for drawing and not for writing, It does have 'gold' borders on three sides. So it wasn't the cheapest of papers...

First who wants it, can send em a PM mail address, and I'll try to get it in the mail before Christmas.

 

[LizEF]

On 3/15/2021 at 12:22 AM, arcfide said:

Because the paper is cotton, it's also a little softer, and there is a texture on the paper that will give more feedback than the hyper-smooth papers out there. However, it's still smooth paper, and as a writing stationery, it gives an experience to the reader that is more luxurious than just the sterility of ultra smooth paper. 

For the record: this paper is nothing close to "smooth".  Maybe with a broad nib you might not notice it as much, but it's crazy coarse.  The following nib-ink combos hate it:

• Pilot Penmanship EF - Koh-I-Noor Document Blue
• Meister by Point M (Japanese M) - Robert Oster Bronze
• Waterman Carene F - Kaweco Summer Purple
• Visconti Homo Sapiens London Fog EF (palladium) - Diamine Steel Blue
• Platinum Prefounte F - Sailor Seiboku
• TWSBI Eco 1.1mm Stub - Sailor Souboku

Audible and tactile scratchiness.  This paper is for wet Pelikan super extra triple crazy broad pens.